Topic: Rev. Gary Davis' Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[cephus]

I want to start by saying thanks to the Weenie Community--you've all been a big help in my learning this wonderful music.
I'm a beginner and have been going through Grossman's The Complete Country Blues and taking lessons for the last half year.
I'm trying to learn some of Rev. Gary Davis' songs from I Am The True Vine particularly There's a Destruction In This Land.
I have a bit of a problem when it comes to figuring stuff out by ear that is this complex, the practice of ear training is new to me as well--I've recently been working on Gus Cannon's Jug Stompers for the ear training.
Anyway I was wondering if anyone could give me a hint as to the chord progressions for this song and any of Gary Davis' spirituals.
Thanks,

[daddystovepipe]

Eric Lugosh plays a fine version of "There's Destruction" on his cd "Black Key Blues"
You can get a tab book for the cd (see link)
http://www.ericlugosch.com/tab.html

[uncle bud]

Aim high, I say.   Great song, RGD is pretty tough going for a beginner to figure out by ear. For his gospel material you can't do better than the Ernie Hawkins DVD set http://guitarvideos.com/video/dvd/813dvd.htm aside from finding someone who learned from the Rev and getting lessons in person. Not an option for most of us.

Destruction is out of C position and I hear a variety of things, not all of which are accurate, I'm sure.   But beyond some standard C, F and G positions in places and various melodic bits tossed in, what I hear is:

Part of the song is working out of a C chord in the long A position at the 5th fret, an F chord in a D position at the 5th fret, and a G chord in an F position at the 3rd fret.

There's also a nice chord movement from that 5th fret C chord to an E, then F, then I think D/F#, C/G ("Men and women are passing away into judgement every day, there's a destruction..."). That phrase finishes off with what sound to me like an Am7, F/A, G, C, F, C. Which the bass line and harmony nerd in me likes because it keeps that bass-line movement from F, F#,  to G going further up to the A on the Am7 and F/A. (I could be wrong though!)

Maybe that can get you started, or confuse you even more.

[uncle bud]

Elsewhere on Weenie, I notice Frankie has this song in D, with a 5th fret long A chord as I describe it for C position two frets higher to sound in D. In other words, moving a bunch of what I've outlined up two frets. We'll see if he chimes in, as he can play the Rev.

Edited to add: yup, tooling around with it in D works nicely and much the same way. A couple changes like your 5th string A is now open when you need it on the V chord or the I chord with the V in the bass, E chord becomes a F#, that Am7 I hear becomes a Bm7 at the 7th fret (nice).

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Here is the merged thread on Rev. Gary Davis' guitar playing.
All best,
Johnm

[Stumblin]

Twelve Gates to the City is currently driving me a little bit nuts.
It's that really tricky part under the last line of the verses; the diminished chord & 4th fret pull off is easy enough (I'm familiar with that figure from Weeping Willow), I mean the guitar line underneath "Twelve Gates to the City, Hallelu etc.".
Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

[banjochris]

As I recall, on the word "twelve" in the last line Davis is playing a first-position D chord, then walks up the fourth string into an E7 chord. Then back to the A chord, although I can't remember the details of how that works exactly since I'm at work and don't have a guitar with me!

At the end he either plays a bass run I have never sat down and figured out right or between "hallelu" and "yah" he plays the open D string, snaps his fingers and pulls off the fourth string first fret before settling back into the A chord. And his A is usually the barred G form, with ring finger at 4th fret of the fifth string and pinky at 5th fret of the sixth string.

Hope this helps a little (probably very little!).
Chris

[Stumblin]

Thanks, Chris.
That does help a bit, primarily in forcing me to attack that dag-blasted barred-G form of the A chord - it's very difficult and counter-intuitive, but I'll persevere.
Incidentally, the version I'm listening to is from the Yazoo Complete Early Recordings CD, maybe Rev. Davis might have altered his approach to this song in later recordings, I just don't know. The need for some investigation is indicated.

[banjochris]

I'm actually not a big fan of his 1935 recording of "Twelve Gates" -- that one got much better, instrumentally and vocally, as the years went on, I think. His most moving performance of it is on "Live at Newport," IMO.

It's worth fiddling with the barred G form, as well as the barred C he uses for his main D chord, because he uses them a lot.

[Mr.OMuck]

One of the keys to getting rgd's stuff like the barred D is to hold the guitar at the same angle he did and also let your hand sort of pull back with all fingers on the fretboard. It sounds silly but it puts the chords more easily to hand and makes the switches more physically logical, even inevetable.

[Stumblin]

Thanks for the tips, chaps.
I'll search around for some footage and track down later versions of the song too.
Posture is often very important, I've found.
A barred C shape for D? That's just crazy talk.
Looks like I've got my work cut out...

[Stumblin]

Incidentally, we don't seem to have a keys & playing positions table for Rev. Davis, as we do for a number of other musicians, is any such endeavour in the planning or "in progress" stages?

[banjochris]

One of the keys to getting rgd's stuff like the barred D is to hold the guitar at the same angle he did and also let your hand sort of pull back with all fingers on the fretboard. It sounds silly but it puts the chords more easily to hand and makes the switches more physically logical, even inevetable.

Not silly at all, it's great advice. Thanks to my ample tummy I found that same angle a long time ago and it works well!

[Stumblin]

Progress report...
This is one of the most difficult guitar tasks I've ever attempted.
Not news, I know, and maybe even contravening the most sacrosanct Weenie "no posting if nothing to say" rule, but I just wanted to share my frustration and exasperation with a group of people who might understand.
I'll keep plugging away at it though; dogged determination in the face of manifest inability might just carry me through.

[uncle bud]

Where is the rule abut "nothing to say"? 

In my numerous attempts to approach the music of Gary Davis, usually encountering a brick wall several bars into a given piece, I have learned progress is something I must measure in years.