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America is world-famous, after all, for celebrating the new, living in the moment. How quick we are to discard, to expunge what is not immediately relevant to us - Richard Sudhalter's musings on his way home from a cruise ship gig after drawing a blank with two backpackers when discussing Hoagy Carmichael and Stardust

Author Topic: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine  (Read 2509 times)

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Offline Shovel

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Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:07:13 AM »
Removed at request of owner.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 09:32:38 AM by Shovel »

Offline jostber

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 09:32:11 AM »
Thanks for posting this. Here's a postcard from some of the same location from 1913.


Offline Stuart

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 10:25:52 AM »
Thanks for posting the photos. Since York Beach was / is a tourist and vacation destination, my guess is that he came north to entertain and make some $$ during the tourist season. Back in the day people would come up from the southern states to work in the hotels, restaurants, etc. that were open only during the summer months and needed extra seasonal employees.

I agree--it would be great to know his story--and in addition, I'm sure he had many interesting stories to tell.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 08:31:39 PM »
I hope Randy Meadows sees this, he has a nice collection of pics that he has found over the years.  Might be any one of the many musicians that never get the ink that RJ gets which to me would be even more exciting.  I am kind of over RJ at the moment and after hearing what has happened to Macks research since he died is a little soul crushing so I am done with RJ for now.  Personal hang up but I digress.  Hope you can add a name and music to the face.

Offline jostber

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2016, 12:49:01 AM »
Here is an even earlier picture postcard from this location from 1905:



Article:

https://www.mainememory.net/sitebuilder/site/1990/page/3245/display




Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 06:07:07 AM »
Thank god we don't wear those kinds of dresses anymore.  There is no way they were comfortable in all of that layered clothes except maybe in winter.

Offline arg6442

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 08:54:49 AM »
I hope Randy Meadows sees this, he has a nice collection of pics that he has found over the years.  Might be any one of the many musicians that never get the ink that RJ gets which to me would be even more exciting.  I am kind of over RJ at the moment and after hearing what has happened to Macks research since he died is a little soul crushing so I am done with RJ for now.  Personal hang up but I digress.  Hope you can add a name and music to the face.
wow I must be a little behind the times, what's going to happen to his research
Wailin' and sailin', moving down that line.

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 01:54:05 PM »
http://atlantichouseinn.com


http://www.amazon.com/Maines-Visible-Black-History-Chronicle/dp/0884482758


There were, of course Black Mainers........


There is an Old York Historical Society.
http://www.oldyork.org


Seems to me that there should be some handed down memory of this person from someone. Mainers in these coastal towns seem to have a working collective memory going back generations.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 02:11:35 PM by Mr.OMuck »
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 02:57:00 PM »
Just sent off to the York Historical society...

[/size]Dear Ms. Gomes,[/color]
I wonder if you can help me to identify the Black Musician in this photo (attached). He is standing a ways in front of the Atlantic Hotel and the photo appears to be from the twenties. Knowing Maine as I do (30 summers on Deer Isle) I know that Mainers generally have amazing multi generational memories often handed down verbally. A character that looked like this and probably played music for tips on the street would certainly have made an impression. Knowing how interested in music many Mainers are, I'd bet more than one local person watched long and hard to pick up some guitar licks from this fellow.
I'd appreciate it if you could poke around a bit and perhaps show the photo to some of your more senior, senior citizens to see if we can shake any memories loose.
I belong to an online forum which studies old Blues and other early African American music and we are all interested in this person's identity. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
 Phil Allen
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

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Offline Stuart

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Offline waxwing

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 07:14:53 PM »
Wouldn't be surprising if the picture was in one of those books, Mr OM. And it might jog a memory or two if you described him as a one man band as he seems to have a harmonica on a rack.

But what really has me wondering are the trappings he has on the guitar under his right arm. You can see the neck heel pretty clearly but then there seems to be a contraption far more elaborate that a capo over the part of the fretboard close to the body. Also there are some sort of gizmos attached to the head of the guitar, which you can see the shadow of on the ground. Very bizarre.

Wax
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
George Bernard Shaw

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Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 12:18:53 AM »
Looking at this photo in photoshop under high magnification I'm not confident that there hasn't already ben some restoration work done on this photo, because that whole arm is decidedly different from the rest of the picture. That may account for the confused shapes around the guitar head. Also the guys head is appearing to be weirdly unattached and of a different light and texture than the rest of the picture, so the whole thing may be a fake. Winters in Maine are long. :P
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

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Offline onewent

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 08:25:00 AM »
Hi Wax, I noticed the exact same thing with the guitar.  To me, it appears the guitar has been modified with the neck cut off and a shorter neck (mandolin?) attached, but it's really hard to see.  Or some type of mechanical 'autoharp' thingy ...?  I also appears to have what looks like a large ribbon hanging at the end. ?? Tom

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 08:39:14 AM »
I also thought it might be a cut off guitar neck with either a mandolin neck grafted on or perhaps even a clarinet. There were also combination guitar, mandolin instruments around, in the mode of Harp guitar type instruments. More likely its a home customized one off.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Lastfirstface

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 08:58:27 AM »
It looks to me like three-in-a-row slot head tuners with a capo at about the third fret and a large object tied to the headstock.

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 01:22:40 PM »
Wouldn't be surprising if the picture was in one of those books, Mr OM. And it might jog a memory or two if you described him as a one man band as he seems to have a harmonica on a rack.

But what really has me wondering are the trappings he has on the guitar under his right arm. You can see the neck heel pretty clearly but then there seems to be a contraption far more elaborate that a capo over the part of the fretboard close to the body. Also there are some sort of gizmos attached to the head of the guitar, which you can see the shadow of on the ground. Very bizarre.

Wax

Yes, on the head of the guitar to me it looks almost like a bowed ribbon and/or jingle bells or some other kind of percussive effect, but who knows.

Offline P D Grant

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 03:38:56 PM »
On a similar note, Time magazine published some images a couple of days ago that were taken in Harlem in 1938.  One of them features a musician with a Dobro. Wondered if anyone recognised him? You can find the article here (image 6) - http://time.com/4206723/photos-harlem-street-life-1930s/

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 05:10:13 PM »
These Damned Robert Johnsons just keep poppin up everywhere! :P
Well if you consider that Harlem was the Black capital of America in 1938 and beyond, and that many record companies did their recording here, take your pick! The locals were Josh White, Leadbelly, Sonny and Browny and Gary Davis by 1940. There's also Alec Seward..... Deduct 10 or 15 years from this picture and its possible....
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2016, 05:16:11 PM »
Looks like a kazoo and a short fife in a rack, a guitar mounted rack. I used to have one of them..
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 05:17:21 PM by Mr.OMuck »
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 09:55:40 AM »
I haven't seen this before but it is impressive.
The man is not just a farmer with a guitar; he is well prepared for entertaining and traveling. Seems to be successful and confident.
Hopefully your letter will give us more clues.
The end of the guitar possibly has the equivalent of a cowbell or percussion dimension attached. He is a one man band apparently and multi talented.
randymeadows@ymail.com
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Offline waxwing

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2016, 07:36:13 PM »
It looks to me like three-in-a-row slot head tuners with a capo at about the third fret and a large object tied to the headstock.

Looking again, I see what I thought was a more elaborate contraption seems to be a shadow under a fold of his sleeve. But you're right, just a capo, altho looking at the shadow, yes, I can see the three tuning heads from one side, but quite a bit of neck and then the capo's shadow must be covered by his arm's shadow. Maybe more like the 5th fret. Could be a bow on the headstock, even in the shadow, but could be some odd bell, too.

Wax
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
George Bernard Shaw

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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Offline harriet

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 06:26:03 PM »
Here's a black and white conversion hopefully which makes the details clearer, and I also applied a filter which adjusts the shadows, highlights, Phil would know what I mean - you can see the harmonica rack and it looks like a bell on the end of the guitar contraption he has under his arm - I think its a real photo -don't think its photoshopped -maybe not a good scan of it though.

On the other one Phil posted with the dobro - that's a pretty small instrument - looks the size of a small parlor stella in relation to him.

Harriet

« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:28:11 PM by harriet »

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 03:22:27 AM »
Good idea Harriet! Its much more clearly a six string slot head with a capo. The shape of the leftmost object on the headstock looks very much like a rose. The shadow shows the rightmost shape to be an object consistent in shape with a cowbell.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 03:25:10 AM »
What do you think of the possible Alec Seward ID Harriet? The nose is pretty close no?
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline harriet

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 03:59:52 AM »
Hi Mr O'Muck, I'm afraid I am probably the wrong person to ask. I looked at some photos online of Alec Seward and I really can't tell, being as the figure in the photo is wearing a hat and the face is tilted up.

Bruce Conforth has an excellent video on facial points that were checked on the RJ fraud that make sense to me to make the leap between passing resemblance and true identification, so I feel more comfortable using that as a guideline with respect for, I guess you would call it, both the identity of the person in the photo and the existing verified photos of Alec Seward.

Offline onewent

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2016, 06:53:45 AM »
Sooo, what's he holding in his left hand? >:D  Tom   ...to clarify, the Maine unknown.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 09:47:57 AM by onewent »

Offline harriet

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 07:19:53 AM »
IMHO that  might be a hole in the photo  - its more in line color value wise with the paper than anything in the photo, and it doesn't seem to have dimension or cast a shadow, but I could be wrong. Harriet

Offline Johnm

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2016, 08:00:09 AM »
For what it is worth, there are no recordings on which Alec Seward played harmonica on a rack or otherwise.  The rack could also have been used for a kazoo, of course.  I'm not sure the assumption should be made that this person played Blues.

Offline onewent

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 09:56:08 AM »
BTW, the Maine unknown photo, the bell-shaped thingy is actually (or likely, at least) the tassel end of his 'sash' cord strap.  I have dozens of these harvested from old guitar cases and were ubiquitous in those days.  Tom

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2016, 07:59:05 AM »
Follow up from York Maine. Sorry for the formatting which I can't seem to undo. Dancing Bears?
[/size]
[/size]Dear Mr. Allen,
[/size]
[/size]I have shared your question and image with a couple of York?s older ?town historians?, but none of them were familiar with either the gentleman or even the photograph. They do remember numerous itinerant ?hobos, gypsies, & Indians as well as black workers in our area? (Virginia Spiller, former archivist); however they simply passed through the town, never staying long. The town?s newspaper, The Courant, often noted the arrival of entertainment or people selling wares (?Indians selling baskets? or ?man with dancing bear?), but individual names were not cited.
[/size]
[/size]We do not have a copy of this image in our files. With your permission, I would like to create a copy of the image you sent me and place it into our software management program (PastPerfect). In PastPerfect the image would be tagged with subjects like ?Black Musicians?, ?York Beach?, ?Entertainment?, ?African American Music?, etc. A researcher looking for any of these subjects could pull the image up; someone may have seen the same man in another image at a different time and place. I could include your email contact in the file so that if anyone looking through our collections comes upon it and can add to the provenance you would be notified. If you happen to know the original source of the image, that would be helpful. I can code the image so that reproductions are controlled (and prohibited, if necessary).
[/size]
[/size]Thank you for sharing a piece of York?s history with us. Hopefully sharing the image with local researchers will shed some light on your mystery man?s identity.
[/size]
[/size]Cynthia A. Young-Gomes
[/size]Curator
[/size]Museums of Old York
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 08:02:54 AM by Mr.OMuck »
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2016, 08:04:26 AM »
Shovel, where DID you find this amazing photo?

My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Johnm

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2016, 08:56:16 AM »
That is completely cool that you sent off the message and got that response from Cynthia Young-Gomes, Phil.  Good on you for taking action and not just talking about how somebody should do something.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2016, 09:05:09 AM »
Thanks John. This picture grabbed me, probably because of the incongruity of a Bluesman (if that's what he was) in Maine and as a reminder of the fact that we only know fractions of bits and pieces of the whole cloth of the past. It was simply irresistible to try to get a window onto this photo's moment and it seemed possible to unearth something. Sadly not.

My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2016, 06:47:35 AM »
Shovel, where DID you find this amazing photo?

I save all kinds of photos that I see online to my hard drive.  The one in OP is without a doubt the coolest I've seen.

Here's another good one I saw:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 06:49:29 AM by Shovel »

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 06:52:28 AM »
Here is another photo, it was dated 1915.  Looks a bit like a young Gus Cannon, but NOT Gus Cannon.

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2016, 06:53:23 AM »
And here is one that looks like it could be a similar lineup to the Dallas String Band, or something similar..

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2016, 06:58:05 AM »
This is an interesting picture of a guy with a victrola .. no reason to think he's proudly listening to his own recording.  No reason at all.  But, still a cool picture

Offline harriet

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2016, 08:02:33 AM »
Thanks Shovel for the photos - they are great, much appreciated - I'll check out ebay as well - not that I collect or anything.

Harriet

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2016, 06:33:59 AM »
Thanks Shovel for the photos - they are great, much appreciated - I'll check out ebay as well - not that I collect or anything.

Harriet

Thanks for the kind words.  Sure  thing.  It's rare I buy any of these from ebay either.  How much I like a photo and how much I can pay for it rarely level out but I'm always looking for interesting ones.

That said, I strongly feel there are likely pictures of a lot of our Blues players "out there".   Many of the photos may never see the light of day, whether stashed away i private/public/university collections, but ebay is a spot where LOTS of photos get listed and interested folks can monitor without having to get out to a sale or meet.  A lot of the ones I posted above were from a collection that had a lot of different interests, but one interest was old pictures of african american men with guitars.  Perhaps we'll find something.

I'm attaching another related photo I came across to this post.  There's a little more to this one.

Also, pretty much unrelated, but worth a click if you've never REALLY seen a dog and pony show: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1870s-Dog-Pony-Show-PHOTO-Greyhound-Dalmatian-Rare-Horse-Street-Omaha-NE-/301863849843?hash=item46487ccf73%3Ag%3AKUgAAOSwKtlWsYeq&nma=true&si=JEc1OL2lP%252FCUkUmqmM8SGfKxkaw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 06:35:02 AM by Shovel »

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2016, 06:37:21 AM »
Last one I think.

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2016, 09:02:51 AM »
You've chosen an incredibly great, interesting hobby John. These photos contain whole worlds, lost worlds. They give an idea of the vast unrecorded world that got away. In a sense they serve as a metaphor for how small a window we have on our species' past altogether.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2016, 09:07:01 AM »
I think your idea for a thread of photos awaiting ID is great. Also just being able to see these beauties is a treat. Go for it sez I!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:41:34 AM by Mr.OMuck »
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2016, 09:57:02 AM »
Here are a few more ...

This first one ID'd as a Civil War era couple

Offline Shovel

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Re: Possible Bluesman sighting in York Beach Maine
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2016, 09:59:51 AM »
One more couple, this ID'd by owner as an original photo postcard from the 20s
8 string mandolin?
Religious songbook?

*I think the posting screen says 8 attachments per post?  I haven't figured out how to do more than one.. if I could figure that out I'd share a lot more photos, including string bands, ethnic, and such. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:01:25 AM by Shovel »

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