Topic: Questions about Nobody's Business If I Do

[Pan]

Hi All

Congrats to everyone lucky enough to have attended PT! Sounds like a lot of fun!

Now may I pick your brains again?

First I have a question to those of you who are more experienced with mandolins. I'm working on Tommy Bradley's version of "Nobody's Business If I Do", and the Document CD "Tommie Bradley - James Cole Groups" (DOCD-5189) sleeve notes claim that this take has probably Eddie Dimmit on Mandolin. The recording is quite distorted at times, but I think I'm hearing only a guitar and a washboard being played. If there is a mandolin, is it doubling the high notes I think the guitar is playing, or what? On other songs on the record I can hear a mandolin, when one is supposed to be on the track, but not on this one.

This is important to me, because if no mandolin is present and the high notes are indeed played by the guitarist, that would mean IMO that the song is played in C position capoed up to the Vth fret to make the actual key an F major:

[|: C  | E7 | F(6) | Adim7 |

1st ending
| C   | D7 G7 | C E7| A G  :|]

2nd ending
| C | D7 G7 | C  G7 | C  :|]

What do you think?

Also the A to G chords in the last bar of ending #1 sounded a bit strange to my ears at first. Has anyone the early Sara Martin or Bessie Smith takes? I wonder if these chords are Bradley's own invention. I know that Sara Martin at least has 16 bars in it, but I think many postwar blues and jazz musician tend to treat this song as an 8 bar form instead of 16, with no 2 endings.

Do you know of other pre-war versions apart from Sara Martin (1922 ?) and Bessie (1923 ?)? This song was supposedly written by Porter Grainger (music) and Everett Robbins (lyrics) in 1922, although other sources claim that the actual writers were Grainger, Graham Prince and Clarence Williams

I wonder what relation Frank Stokes' song with the same name has with this one. I think it has a completely different set of lyrics and chord changes. Is Mississippi John Hurts' version is maybe related with the one Stokes plays?

Thanks in advance for all possible replies!

Yours

Pan

Edited to add: A YouTube playlist for some of the versions mentioned in this thread can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNEJV1lNKyyVzHxT-1B9uwCVoXUNxXpqc

[uncle bud]

Hi Pan,

I was working on this one recently as well. I don't recall hearing mandolin. I thought it was just washboard and guitar but don't have the tune handy. I love this version of the song. I think it's capoed up out of C position and that those high notes are definitely guitar. I play it as you have described as I recall, though I might throw in another diminished chord somewhere. Will have to check.

Frasnk Stokes' version is more like the John Hurt version than this one.

[Bunker Hill]

This song was supposedly written by Porter Grainger (music) and Everett Robbins (lyrics) in 1922, although other sources claim that the actual writers were Grainger, Graham Prince and Clarence Williams

Referring to my trusty, and obsessive, "Clarence Williams" (Tom Lord, Storyville, 1976) the sheet music composers are Porter Grainger, Graham Prince, Clarence Williams and Edward Everett Robbins. Porter Grainger copyrighted the song on January 28th 1920 and on September 25, 1922 Clarence Williams Music Publishing Corp acquired publishing rights to the sheet music. The book also notes than the Chicago Defender published a death notice which stated that Robbins, a co-composer of 'Tain't Nobody's Business died on April 16th, 1926.

Not much use with the current discussion but thought I'd throw it in...

[Pan]

Thanks Uncle Bud and Bunker Hill!

Pan

[Pan]

FWIW you can hear the Bessie Smith version Here: http://www.redhotjazz.com/williams.html, apparently with Clarence Williams himself on the piano.
It's 16 bars allright, but the chords in the first endings last 2 bars are I - VI7 - II7 - V7 (this time in the key of D), instead of the I - III7 - VI - V, offered by Bradley.

Cheers

Pan

[uncle bud]

Incidentally, for those who don't have the Complete Tommie Bradley Groups on Document, an admittedly obscure (but tres cool!) record - just picked it up recently myself -  this version of Nobody's Business is on the recent Good for What Ails You compilation of medicine show music, which I know a number of people here have bought. Both are on the Juke.

Pan, here's my attempt at the lyrics which I did awhile back:

If I should take a notion and jump into the ocean
Nobody?s business if I do do lord do do
I give her my last nickel, she leaves me in a pickle
Nobody?s business if I do

If I ?tend church on Sunday and taberee* on Monday
Nobody?s business if I do do lord do do
If I dislike my lover and leave her for another
Nobody?s business if I do

My baby ain?t got no money, I stay cause of her all night honey
Nobody?s business if I do do lord do do
If I ?tend church on Sunday and taberee on Monday
Nobody?s business if I do

I?d rather she would hit me and jump right up quit me
Nobody?s business if I do do lord do do
I give her my last nickel and she leaves me in a pickle
Nobody?s business if I do

* cabaret?

[Pan]

Uncle Bud,

Thank you very much for the lyrics!

I found earlier the Sara Martin and Bessie Smith versions transcribed on the net: http://www.heptune.com/taintnob.html ; they're not exactly the same as Bradleys, but can be of help.

I think you got it pretty much right, just a few minor thoughts:

I'm not sure I hear "Lord" on the 1st ending. The Martin transcription gives this line as "do, love, do, do". I'm not convinced with that either with Bradley's version, and tend to think of it as just some kind of nonsense like maybe: " do, doodle-do-do"  or somesuch?

I definitely think Bradley sings "cabaret".

The other transcription give for the 3rd chorus:
My babe ain't got no money, I say: "take all mine, honey", which would make sense, but I think this is not what Bradley sings, and I think your take sounds much more convincing, and I'm going for it.

Lastly on the last chorus the alternate transcriptions give: "I'd rather she would hit me, than jump right up and quit me"...
Again this might make more sense (?), but I'm with you in that Bradley sings: "and jump right up"...

Now if I only could speak English, I might maybe be a little more convincing here... 

I like this version very much too, because it's so much livelier than many of the "post-Bessie" slow drags...

Cheerily

Pan

Edited to add: both Sara Martin and Bessie Smith sing a verse with different chord changes and lyrics before the actual choruses; Bradley ignores this.

Re-edited to add: after re-listening I'm not sure about the 1st ending anymore. Uncle Bud could very well be right about the "lord/love" bit after all...

[Pan]

Uncle Bud, may I ask you how do you play the 2nd to last bar in the ending #2?

I'm hearing the C chord with the open 1st strg. E played first, then changed to a high G while the bass note alters to an E on the 4th strg. Then, as the chord changes to a G on the 3rd beat, the high note is first F# before it resolves to F natural on the beat 4, while the bass alters to an open D, 4th strg. This is followed by the C chord with E on top on the next bar.

I find this is a bit unusual way to play this chromatically descending turnaround, with just the C and G chords, and it also made me first think whether there are more than just 1 instruments. Is this a common way to play in CB?

FWIW I think in the very ending of the song the chromatic turnaround is played in 3rds without the bassline.

Yours again

Pan

[uncle bud]

Hi Pan,

For that descending treble line, I pretty much let go of the bass and am loosely hitting the open G, D or A strings, something I recall doing in Willie McTell's Warm It Up to Me if memory serves. Papa Charlie Jackson will also do something like this in some of his C tunes. I hit mainly the D string I guess. But I figured the song out quickly and was not attempting a true note for note rendition and it is a pretty strummy guitar part.

edited to add: Forgot to note that what you describe in the bass sounds like it would be a more accurate rendition, and will listen to the song again.

edited to add also: You had mentioned the I III7 VI V sounding a little unusual to you but I think you're right about these chords. It's got a nice slightly different sound to me.

I agree about the very last turnaround being in thirds.

I'm reading Paul Oliver's "Songsters and Saints" right now (highly recommended for anyone interested in preblues and songster material). He writes of this song as follows:

"...the song variously known as It Ain't / Ain't / or Taint Nobody's Business (Biz-ness) If I Do was recorded by Sara Martin and Anne Meyers in 1922, and by Bessie Smith, Lena Wilson and Alberta Hunter the following year. But the version published by Porter Grainger which they performed was an arrangement of a song which was current in the tradition at least since the first decade of the century. It was collected as 'Tain't Nobody's Bizness But My Own' by Howard Odum, which, in his opinion, represented 'the more reckless temperament of the wanderer'.

I went to see my Hanner
Turn tricks in my manner
Tain't nobody's bizness but my own

Don't care if I don't make a dollar
Jes'so I wear my shirt and collar
Tain't nobody's bizness but my own

Oliver continues: "Though the words did not directly correspond, the stanzas scan in a way which suggests that the recording made by the songster Frank Stokes, or in the following instance by Mississippi John Hurt, to a rolling guitar accompaniment derives from the orginal song." (goes on the quote the MJ Hurt lyric)

I would suggest the stanzas scan in a way that very much suggest the Tommie Bradley version as well. Even moreso.

[Bunker Hill]

It was collected as 'Tain't Nobody's Bizness But My Own' by Howard Odum, which, in his opinion, represented 'the more reckless temperament of the wanderer'.

I went to see my Hanner
Turn tricks in my manner
Tain't nobody's bizness but my own

Don't care if I don't make a dollar
Jes'so I wear my shirt and collar
Tain't nobody's bizness but my own

Hey, glad some folk take note of Oliver's books. Something I should have done myself in this instance.

FWIW I've looked up the discussion in Odum and Johnson's The Negro And His Songs (N. Carolina UP, 1925, p 177-8). PO only cites the final two verses the first of which are:

Baby, you ought-a tole me,
Six months before you roll me;
I'd had some other place to go.
'Tain't nobody's bizuess but my own.

Sometimes my baby gets boozy,
An' foolish 'bout her head,
An' I can't rule her,
'Tain't nobody's bizness but my own.

To put a time frame to it, Odum & Johnson collected most songs c.1912-1920

[Pan]

Hi

I must thank you again U.B and B. H.

You had mentioned the I III7 VI V sounding a little unusual to you but I think you're right about these chords. It's got a nice slightly different sound to me.

I couldn't agree more. Anything that can save us from another unnecessary "C Am Dm G7" gets my vote!
FWIW I have a gig here on the 23th, and with the information you have provided, I think I'm confident enough to add this one on my songlist. For all I know, this might be the "Tommy Bradley world debut in Finland", thanks to you guys!

Cheers

Pan

[Pan]

Just out of interest I checked briefly the chord changes on the Frank Stokes and John Hurt versions too. I think both play from the C position and the changes are pretty much identical, although Hurt's picking is more complex:

[|: C  |  C  |  F  |  F  |

|  G(7) |  G(7) | C (G7)| C :|]

Stokes has 3 takes on this. He plays "Part 1" out of Eb, meaning he probably capoed to the IIIrd fret. Interestingly the "Part 2 (take 1) sounds at D major, but the "Part 2 (take 2) is again in E flat. I wonder whether Stokes and Dan Sane experimented with changing the capo, or is this due to unreliable recording speeds? All the takes are reportedly recorded within the same day, so I doubt that re-tuning the guitar a 1/2 -tone away can be an explanation, especially since Sane is present for all the takes. I've noticed this before with the Documents' Stokes' Victor recordings CD, for ex. wit the 2 takes of "It Won't be Long".

I Believe Mississippi John Hurt also plays out of the C position, I have a live-version on the Vanguard "The Best of MJH plus -CD. Here he is tuned an 1/2 step low, however, sounding like he's playing in B major. I don't have the 1928 recordings of MJH. Did he record this song back then already, or is it recorded only after his re-discovery in the 60's?  The Stokes versions were recorded in 1928.

Pan

[Pan]

The Lena Wilson take can be heard here:
Pan

[Pan]

..and the Alberta Hunter one's here: http://open.spotify.com/track/79FAkm64cDHTYX7mOYl1uQ , apparently with a white(!) dixieland band called " The Original Memphis Five"..

Couldn't find Anne Meyers.

Sounds like the Paul Oliver book(s) is a must have.

Pan

Edited to correct: as Richard points out, The Original Memphis Five was not a Dixieland band.

[Richard]

The Original Memphis Five wasn't really a Dixeland band, more NY style early 1922-27-ish it was a s*** hot band with the likes of Miff Mole, Phil Napoleon, Red Nicholls etc - the Bix crew basically but without Bix!

Anne Meyers recorded the song with them in 1922 and out of interest Lena Wilson recorded quite few sides with Fletcher Henderson.

Jazz lecture over