Topic: Changing with the Times

[Bunker Hill]

None of the 60's tracks are on YouTube, apparently.

I have a 70s cassette of the four songs recorded for Bobbin in St Louis (as Grandpappy Gibson) on which he's accompanied by piano, bass and drum. My abiding memory is one of disappointment but that was 40 years ago, I may have mellowed.
 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I suppose the provenance of that supposed Clifford Gibson "Sneaky Groundhog" has been very thoroughly checked, but I have a very hard time believing that that is the same singer and guitarist who recorded as Clifford Gibson in the '20s.  The voice is different and the right hand touch and tone is completely different, and sloppy, which Clifford Gibson never was on his early recordings.  If it is the same person, he certainly did change with the times, and not for the better!
All best,
Johnm

[Bunker Hill]

Hi all,
I suppose the provenance of that supposed Clifford Gibson "Sneaky Groundhog" has been very thoroughly checked, but I have a very hard time believing that that is the same singer and guitarist who recorded as Clifford Gibson in the '20s.
Johnm

Good Question. That and the other title are from acetates made at Baul Studios in St Louis and first saw light of day in 1980s on a Danish Blue Time LP compilation. I t-h-i-n-k it was Mike Rowe or Bill Greensmith who unearthed them in 70s.

[oddenda]

I know that Rowe got some Baul acetates from Big Joe Williams, and found some others in Chicago.

pbl

[alyoung]

If it's true that Will Weldon of the MJB really was Casey Bill in later years, then that has to rank as one of the biggest style evolutions in my opinion.

I would have agreed and until recently I thought it quite possible, as a chronological listen to CBW shows how his instrumental abilities increase and expand as his recording career progresses. But recently I saw (I'm fairly sure it was on the pre-war blues list) evidence that Will Weldon of Memphis died before Casey Bill Weldon started recording. So it would have been a really dramatic career switch.

Al Y

[Stumblin]

If it's true that Will Weldon of the MJB really was Casey Bill in later years, then that has to rank as one of the biggest style evolutions in my opinion.

I would have agreed and until recently I thought it quite possible, as a chronological listen to CBW shows how his instrumental abilities increase and expand as his recording career progresses. But recently I saw (I'm fairly sure it was on the pre-war blues list) evidence that Will Weldon of Memphis died before Casey Bill Weldon started recording. So it would have been a really dramatic career switch.

Al Y

I wonder if it's possible for you to post the relevant info here, when you remember where you found it?

[Bunker Hill]

But recently I saw (I'm fairly sure it was on the pre-war blues list) evidence that Will Weldon of Memphis died before Casey Bill Weldon started recording. So it would have been a really dramatic career switch.

Well remembered Al.

Jim O'Neal researched this for the Mississippi Blues Trail Project and reported that:

Will Weldon is in the Tennessee, Deaths and Burials Index, 1874-1955 at
ancestry.com and also in the Shelby County site
(http://register.shelby.tn.us/index.php) , which is a free
online database where you can download death certificates. Note that his
occupation is listed as musician, with an address on Beale St. (I also found
JimJackson in the Shelby County death index.) I shared the Weldon info with Bob
Eagle, who found a listing for the family in the Sunflower County,
Mississippi, census in 1900. We (and others) have been trying to pin down Casey
Bill Weldon for years, and we ordered a likely-looking Social Security
application for a William Cecil Weldon, who turned out to be white, born in
Kentucky. (Just to save someone else the trouble in case you see the entry in
the Social Security Death Index for William Weldon, SSN: 425-07-2239 , Last
Residence: Memphis, Born: 26 Apr 1903, Died: Feb 1970, SSN issued:
Mississippi, before 1951.) The information in the SSDI entries is often
differentthan that entered on the original Social Security applications, which can only
be obtained by paying a search fee to the Social Security Administration.
Thanks to the Mississippi Blues Trail I have been able to obtain quite a
number of these original applications, and these, combined with census,
military, and other data, have yielded enough information to call for revisions
in the standard bios of many artists. I'll be publishing some of this soon
in Living Blues.

Back to Will Weldon, here's the entry in the Tennessee, Deaths and Burials
Index, 1874-1955:

Name: Will Weldon
Birth Date: abt 1906
Birth Place: Grenada, Miss
Age: 28
Death Date: 30 Apr 1934
Death Place: Memphis, Shelby, Tennessee
Burial Date: 2 May 1934
Cemetery Name: Mt Carmel
Gender: Male
Race: Colored (Black)
Marital Status: Single
Street Address: 205 Beale
Occupation: Musician
Father's Name: Will Weldon
Father's Birth Place: Mississippi
Mother's Name: Adeline Burt
Mother's Birth Place: Mississippi
FHL Film Number: 1876812

[Gerry Clarke]

That's very interesting and clears that up.  Thanks for posting.

Gerry

[Bunker Hill]

That's very interesting and clears that up.  Thanks for posting.

Weenie resources aim to please. 

[Johnm]

Yes, thanks for keeping track of such things, Bunker Hill, I think it keeps us all on our toes.  It's wonderful the way you can access such a variety of information.
All best,
Johnm

[Bunker Hill]

Yes, thanks for keeping track of such things, Bunker Hill, I think it keeps us all on our toes.  It's wonderful the way you can access such a variety of information.
All best,
Johnm

As someone once stated in respect of seekers of knowledge - long before the internet was invented  - "it's all out there you, just got to know where to look". In my case it's just the former university librarian coming into his own.

[GhostRider]

Hi all,
I suppose the provenance of that supposed Clifford Gibson "Sneaky Groundhog" has been very thoroughly checked, but I have a very hard time believing that that is the same singer and guitarist who recorded as Clifford Gibson in the '20s.  The voice is different and the right hand touch and tone is completely different, and sloppy, which Clifford Gibson never was on his early recordings.  If it is the same person, he certainly did change with the times, and not for the better!
All best,
Johnm

The guitar accompaniment reminds me of late Memphis Minnie and Little Son Joe, especially the rhythm. Maybe he was emulating success.

[oddenda]

Nobody seems to have mentioned Curley Weaver - major alteration in style ca. 1930, from what his mother taught him (and the Hicks brothers) to the then burgeoning ragtime-based Piedmont approach. Rollin' with the times, commercially speaking!

Peter B.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been listening  quite a lot lately to Big Joe Williams, and hearing and really paying attention to some of his recordings from the '50s that he did for Lillian McMurtry on the Trumpet label made me feel that he falls, surprisingly for me, into the "changing with the times" camp.  Joe's two cuts, "Mama Don't Allow Me" and "Delta Blues", recorded on September 25, 1951 in Jackson, Mississippi are covers of, respectively, John Lee Hooker's hits "Boogie Chillen" and "Hobo Blues".  They are really excellent covers, but covers, none the less, and seem a solid indication of Joe's intent to stay current with what blues audiences were listening to then.  Listening to these cuts and others of Joe's from this post-War but pre-discovery period, when he was playing electric guitar, has been an ear-opening experience, especially since I never really listened to these cuts carefully before.  They are very, very strong, and it is a treat to hear Joe on an electric guitar.  You might want to seek out these cuts if you enjoy Joe's music, and his music from this period is unfamiliar to you.  They can be found on the JSP set, "Big Joe Williams and the Stars or Mississippi Blues", if it is still available.
All best,
Johnm   

[oddenda]

John -

     Check out his VeeJay sides, and the tests for Baul in St. Louis! Keep up with the times, or die tryin'!

pbl