Topic: His Blues from her point of view...or visa versa????

[Blue in VT]

Howdy all,

So on my drive into work today I was listening to Mance Lipscomb's Version of Bumblebee (one of my favorites!) which set me to thinking that it was intersting...and not that uncommon in the Blues genere for a male singer to sing a tune from a female Point of view...the other that jumps to mind is MJH's Richland Woman Blues.  Considering the stereotypical view of bluesmen as hard drinking womanizing masogonistic types I find this fact very intertesting.  I've heard in the past people say that Rap music is todays version of the blues...but can you imagine an self respecting rap artist sing a song about how they got "stuck" by a "stinger as long as my right arm" or wearing "bright purple rouge" and pants with a "rumble seat"

Anyhoo...I'm intersted to hear other folks thoughts on this topic and maybe other songs that fall into this "catagory"

Cheers,

Blue...He stung me this morning...I've been restless all day long!

[Coyote Slim]

Johnny Shines did the same as Mance when he sang "Bumblebee."

[doctorpep]

100% correct! When Mr. Shines sang "Bumble Bee Blues", he sang it from a woman (Minnie's) point of view. Interesting, right? This might be a bit off topic, but on the "Desperate Man Blues" dvd, there is an extra of Son House doing "Death Letter", in which he switches from, I believe, 2nd person to first person, in terms of the lyrics/narrative.

[frankie]

Sam Chatmon's cover of "Bumblebee" (I think this is on youtube)
"Ramrod Blues" by The Mississippi Sheiks

both sung from a female's point of view, entirely in 1st person.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
This is a really interesting question Blue in VT raises, I believe, and as the title of the thread implies, it can work both ways.  On the George Mitchell Collection, Rosa Lee Hill sings on "Pork and Beans",
   "Let me marry your daughter, be your son-in-law."
Elsewhere on the set, Othar Turner sings "Bumble Bee" as noted above, as per Mance Lipscomb's rendition of the same song.
I think whether the sex of the narrative voice is changed in the lyric to accomodate the sex of the person singing the song has something to do with how much the singer perceives the song as being an established piece of music that goes a certain way.  I used to sing Elvie Thomas's "Motherless Chile", and when I came to the second verse, I always sang it as,
   "She said, "Daughter, daughter, please don't be like me, that is fall in love with every man you see."
I just felt that was the way the song goes, but I also feel that if you start jimmying around with pronouns in lyrics and feel like a simple reversal of the sexes will communicate the same sentiment as the original, only inverted, it's not that simple.  I have heard a young woman sing Skip James' "Devil Got My Woman" as "Devil Got My Man", and I think it would have been so much stronger left as is.  Skip had big control issues vis a vis women, as in "Cypress Grove", and it just isn't the same to switch it around.  It's probably something you have to come to terms with for yourself, like so much of what is involved in making interpretive choices.
All best,
Johnm

[Blue in VT]

Excellent points Johm...Artistic license is one thing thing doing a rendidtion of a well established song is another.  I do find it funny that this type of thing would never happen today!

Blue

[Bricktown Bob]

Rev. Gary Davis's "Candy Man"?  M. John Hurt's "I'm Satisfied"?  LeadBelly's "Backwater Blues"?  Dylan's "House of the Rising Sun"?

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Two performances which would fall into this category are Papa Charlie Jackson's recordings of "I've Got What It Takes, But It Breaks My Heart To Give It Away" and the much-discussed "Airy Man Blues", both of which are sung from a woman's point of view by a man.  It would be interesting to know if "Airy Man Blues", in particular, was recorded by any of the Classic blues singers before Papa Charlie, or maybe by one of the mainstays of the Black Vaudeville stage.
All best,
Johnm

[dj]

It would be interesting to know if "Airy Man Blues", in particular, was recorded by any of the Classic blues singers before Papa Charlie, or maybe by one of the mainstays of the Black Vaudeville stage.

For what it's worth, Bob MacLeod's composer list gives the composer credit on the Airy Man Blues label as Charlie Jackson.  Of course, this might just mean that Paramount had no idea who the real composer was. 

[Shovel]

Definitely intriguing.  Dates to a time when musicians were closer to jukeboxes than most would prefer to think of themselves these days.   Someone request a song?  You play the song best you can.  Maybe some things never change..

I think it would be a sign of a good artist to tweak the lyrics to a well known standard (which Bumble Bee seemed to be in the 30s) and changes the Point of View.  Like "I stung her this mornin', she been lookin for me all day long".  Any examples of that?  (Not that it's a sign of a bad artist if they sing it how they found it..)

Another similar situation ... in "When the Levee Breaks", Memphis Minnie sings about "her woman" and another few things we might associate with a male point of view.  It even sounds to me like she's singing with an extra deep voice to sing like a man, whether on purpose or not.  I've wondered if I picked that record up with an illegible label, would I hear the lyrics and assume it's a man?  Maybe..

[dj]

Another similar situation ... in "When the Levee Breaks", Memphis Minnie sings about "her woman" and another few things we might associate with a male point of view.  It even sounds to me like she's singing with an extra deep voice to sing like a man...

That's actually Kansas Joe McCoy singing the lead on When The Levee Breaks.  One problem with the internet age: the song usually appears on Memphis Minnie compilations, so the mp3 for the song gets tagged as by Memphis Minnie, and Joe McCoy gets forgotten.

[Shovel]

Another similar situation ... in "When the Levee Breaks", Memphis Minnie sings about "her woman" and another few things we might associate with a male point of view.  It even sounds to me like she's singing with an extra deep voice to sing like a man...

That's actually Kansas Joe McCoy singing the lead on When The Levee Breaks.  One problem with the internet age: the song usually appears on Memphis Minnie compilations, so the mp3 for the song gets tagged as by Memphis Minnie, and Joe McCoy gets forgotten.

CD Age ( 'Primo Collection 2 CD Set 40 Delta Blues Gems' from Half Price Books) but yeah, that would certainly provide a simpler explanation than Minnie's perceived role playing.  Thanks for the clarification. 

[Lyle Lofgren]

There are some songs where switching the gender to that of the singer works, and others where it doesn't. I think, in general, the blues singers of the past have made pretty good decisions about how to present the song. One case where switching would work fine, but is awaiting for a female singer to perform it: "You got your mojo working, but it just don't work on me."

Lyle

[cih]

Another one from Mance Lipscomb - though I can't remember the title .. "My man studyin' evil, you'd be evil too, yes I'm evil you'd be evil too.."  as sung originally by Victoria Spivey

also "In the Pines" - Leadbelly?

[Slack]

One case where switching would work fine, but is awaiting for a female singer to perform it: "You got your mojo working, but it just don't work on me."

Lyle, check out Ann Cole with The Suburbans and Orchestra - best version, IMO, ever!  Great sax solo too.

[Lyle Lofgren]

I'd never heard Ann Cole before -- fabulous rendition. Thanks for pulling my coat to it.

Lyle

[Bunker Hill]

I'd never heard Ann Cole before -- fabulous rendition. Thanks for pulling my coat to it.
Lyle

Here's something that may be of interest. They don't write copy like that anymore.... 

Rhythm and Blues Magazine
July 1957

"She's Got Her Mo-Jo Working--ANN COLE"
Presenting Baton Records' New Sensation Belter Of The Blues

It seems that the fabulous young belter of the Blues, Miss Ann Cole, has finally dug into a good luck treasure chest and has come up with the winning sound that has her on the hit kick. Her newest Baton recording is called "I've Got My Mo-Jo Working" -- and if "Mo-Jo" means the power of producing hit records, then it sure is working for lovely little Ann. Now, for those of you who aren't too hip to the know 'bout this chick who's puttin' down the most in Rhythm and Blues sounds, we'll ink out the fine facts for you to dig into so that you can hip yourself to the happenings.

Ann Cole began her professional career with her entire family, a spiritual group called "The Colemanaires". The group traveled throughout the United States for over two years and made appearances in a number of major cities, with Ann doing most of the group's lead singing -- in addition to solo work. "The Colemanaires" popularity grew to the extent that Ann's uncle formed the Coleman Recording Company, for which Ann made several recordings.

The family group eventually drifted apart, but Ann continued singing whenever and wherever she could. At one time, she recorded several tunes for Timely Records, which, for lack of distribution, never became popular. One person, however, did hear the records and realized that there was a girl with great potentiality. Lou Sprung and Sol Rabinowitz, prexy of Baton Records, searched for two years attempting to reach the obscure singer. Finally, one member of a vocal group the company was recording knew Ann and thought he could get in touch with her. After a week of phone calls and message leaving, the evasive Miss Cole visited the Baton offices. This all-important interview was on Friday. By the following Monday, a long-term contract was signed, and the master on her first release, "Are You Satisfied" was cut.

Now that you've picked up on the facts in ink, we think you should go out and pick up wax facts, meaning the platters that are spinning 'round and 'round with that most fabulous Ann Cole sound.

Later, for all you hippies -- we hope you'll follow our advice 'cause Ann Cole is really nice. Dig?

[Slack]

They don't write copy like that anymore....

No kidding. 

Bunker, once again thank you for hipping us to the happenings.  We dig it.

[Lyle Lofgren]

Not only don't they write like that any more, I would think that 1957 would be very early for "hippie." "Hipster" was the only term I heard back then (but, of course, then as now, I'm living in the linguistic and psychedelic hinterlands -- reefer madness didn't hit Minneapolis until about the mid-1960s).

Lyle

[Rivers]

Thanks for the wax facts, Jack.

[wreid75]

Never much cared for House of the Rising Sun versions told as if a male.  I loved the versions sang the way it was written

[Lyle Lofgren]

Never much cared for House of the Rising Sun versions told as if a male.  I loved the versions sang the way it was written

I agree. If you didn't write the song yourself, it can't be autobiographical, so why pretend that it is?

Lyle

[Johnm]

What is an example of a rendition that is done as it was written?  Do we even know how it was written?

[Lyle Lofgren]

No, in the case of traditional songs, there's no way to find the original version. But, clearly, "House of the Rising Sun" is narrated by a woman.  A song on the subject with a male narrator would have a completely different flavor. Another example (where we do know the original version) is Jean Ritchie's "Dear Companion." It's easy enough to change the gender in the song, but it ruins the sense of the song, which is that of abandonment, specifically abandonment  by a man.  Given the gender roles in our society, a sex-change operation makes the song pointless.

Lyle