WeenieCampbell.com
Country Blues => Country Blues Licks and Lessons => Topic started by: Johnm on March 01, 2005, 02:00:21 PM
-
Hi all,
I was thinking how this much-maligned key/position in standard tuning nonetheless had a surprising number of tunes recorded in it over the years. Working with our format of the recent past, I thought it might be fun to make a list of such performances. I'll get the ball rolling:
* "Travellin' Coon"--Luke Jordan
* "Fightin' The Jug"--Blind Blake
* "Roberta"--Leadbelly
* "I Decided To Go Down"--Rev. Gary Davis
* "Prison Wall Blues"--Gus Cannon & His Jugstompers
All best,
Johnm
-
As a relative beginner the key of "F" gives me the blues.
-
A few off the top of my head:
"Search Warrant Blues" Blind Blake
"In the Jailhouse Now" Pink Anderson (one of my personal favorites)
"Barbershop Rag" William Moore
"Ragtime Crazy" William Moore
"Shake It and Break It" Charlie Patton
"You Got to See Your Mama Every Night" Mance Lipscomb
"Devil's Dream" Rev. Gary Davis
"Soldier's Drill" Rev. Gary Davis (OK half of it is in C, I know)
"Blow Gabriel" Rev. Gary Davis
"God's Gonna Separate" Rev. Gary Davis
"Looked Down the Road" Rev. Gary Davis (don't remember if this is the right title, but it's on "Say No to the Devil")
Chris
-
hey everybody,
I've got a good country blues in F to add to the list....
"King Edward Blues" on Roy Bookbinder's Live CD
On the cd I believe he says it was originally a Willie McTell tune. I've been playing it for about a year and a half I guess ( it's really fun to play and sing ).
Kenny
-
I just thought of another 'F Tune' to mention......
"Try Some Of That" from Pink Anderson's "Carolina Blues Man Vol. 1" CD. The lyrics, in my opinion, are really funny but the thing about this song that I love is the cool bass runs that he does. Is anyone else familiar with this tune?
I was in Texas about 3 1/2 years ago and I was looking around in a used vinyl shop and came across Carolina Blues Man Vol. 1 for around 7 bucks. Needless to say, I bought it. Well, a friend of mine who loves country blues was having a birthday not too long after that and I ended up giving to him as a gift. I know he appreciated it but every once in a while I wish I still had that record ( even though I own the CD version now ).
Kenny
-
I just thought of another 'F Tune' to mention......
? "Try Some Of That" from Pink Anderson's "Carolina Blues Man Vol. 1" CD. The lyrics, in my opinion, are really funny but the thing about this song that I love is the cool bass runs that he does. Is anyone else familiar with this tune?
Kenny- I love this tune and have always meant to figure it out. Didn't realize it was in F. Will have to check it out.
-
Hi all,
I'm sneaking in from England. How about:
* "Doing A Stretch"--Blind Blake
* "Pick Poor Robin Clean"--Luke Jordan
* "Alabama Jubilee"--Mance Lipscomb
All best,
Johnm
-
Willie McTell's Delia was in F but perhaps detuned?
-
Hello everyone,
Rev. Davis arranged the "The United States of America March" in F. Just amazing. Andy Cohen put his version on his new cd, Rediculous Instrumentals that I just got. I'll post a review soon.
Mike
-
Hi all,
I'm just back from England, and thought of a bunch by Papa Charlie Jackson:
* Corn Liquor Blues
* Big Feeling Blues
* Ma and Pa Poorhouse Blues
* She Belongs To Me Blues
All best,
Johnm
-
Thought of one more by William Moore -- "Tillie Lee" -- this means that F is the key Moore plays in the most often on his released sides -- that must be a first.
And if memory serves from the big Willie McTell thing I did, his "Beedle Um Bum" is played out of F. Curley Weaver plays in F on a bunch of those sides.
Also there's a tune called the "Blue Grass Twist" on Yazoo's "Mr. Charlie's Blues" that's in F -- by the Bibb County Highballers IIRC.
By the way I'm pretty sure "Pick Poor Robin Clean" is in C.
Chris
-
Good catch on "Pick Poor Robin Clean", Chris. It is sure enough in C. That's what I get for relying too heavily on my memory!
All best,
Johnm
-
Couple others, partly from another topic:
Rev. Davis:
He Knows How Much We Can Bear
Friend Like Lonely Jesus
Babe, What You Gonna Do?
Blind Blake:
Notoriety Woman
-
Just started learning "Soldier's Drill" by Rev Gary Davis.
I tune the bass E string up to F. Makes it slightly less impossible.
.
-
Just started learning "Soldier's Drill" by Rev Gary Davis.
I tune the bass E string up to F. Makes it slightly less impossible.
Well... until you get to the little interludes between the repeated sections in C. There's an E on the open 6th string that shows up there that would be kinda inconvenient if you tuned it away.
-
Hi all,
I recently noticed a few more tunes that fall into this category:
"Sadie Lee"--Peg Leg Howell
"Turtle Dove Blues"--Peg Leg Howell
"Laughing Pallet"--Hacksaw Harney
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Snooks Eaglin plays a number of tunes in F, standard tuning, on his recently released "New Orleans Streetsinger" album on Smithsonian Folkways: "Let Me Go Home, Whiskey", "The Lonesome Road", "Helping Hand" and "Drifting Blues".
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I was just listening to the Algia Mae Hinton CD "Honey Babe: Blues, Folk Tunes and Gospel" (Hin-Tone 82929) that was produced by Lightnin' Wells and recorded at Port Townsend a few years back, and noticed that Algia Mae does an eccentric little F tune on there, "Take Me Back To The Movie Star". I have never heard another like it. Incidentally, I don't know if this CD is still in print, but it is excellent, better, I think, than the later release put out on Cello by the Music Maker Foundation. If the CD is still in print, you could probably get it from Lightnin'.
All best,
Johnm
-
John:
It appears that the Algia Mae Hinton CD: "Honey Babe" is still available. Here's the link:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/musicmakerstore/algiamaehinton.html
-
..and the CD is on the Juke
-
A few Mississippi Sheiks songs:
Jail Bird Love Song
Yodeling Fiddling Blues
Times Done Got Hard
Unhappy Blues
I've Got Blood In My Eyes For You
-
A couple more, since Frankie jogged my memory on tunes with fiddle -- Andy and Jim Baxter's Georgia Stomp and Forty Drops are both in F.
Chris
-
Andy and Jim Baxter's Georgia Stomp and Forty Drops
Nice ones, both. James Baxter's accompaniment on Georgia Stomp definitely takes the cake for me - perfect loose-but-tight stuff!
-
Hi all,
I recently heard the re-issue of the Mance Lipscomb album on Reprise, "Trouble In Mind", and Mance does a previously unreleased version of "Casey Jones" on there that he plays out of F. The melody that Mance uses is the one commonly used by Trad Jazz bands playing the song, and it sits beautifully in F, really natural.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I got to thinking about it and realized Leadbelly must have recorded more tunes in F. I checked on the first two volumes of his Library of Congress recordings on Rounder this evening, and in addition to "Roberta", he does a terrific version of "Midnight Special" in F and also "Governor Pat Neff". He was so prolific, I'm sure he had more F tunes.
All best,
Johnm
-
Memphis Jug Band; "FOURTH ST. MESS AROUND", Starts on Dm but resolves to key of F. Tampa Red; " DUCKS YASS YASS YASS" another great song in F.
Try adding the low F note on the E string with your thumb, this gives the chord a nice well rounded sound also try to pick out the base runs associated with this position. I play the B flat barring the top four strings on the third fret with the ring finger, add the C7 and you're playing in the key of F.
Later; RB
-
Yeah, but Duck's Yas Yas is a VI7-II7-V7-I (D7-G7-C7-F) so no Bb necessary.-G- Which is why this is such a popular rag key.
All for now.
John C.
-
Hi all,
I listened through Leadbelly's Last Sessions yesterday and today and found two more songs he played out of F position, standard tuning (though tuned quite low, as was his practice). "Relax Your Mind" is an F blues with great lyrics including driving tips (really!) and "Sweet Mary" is a terrific raggy number. Listening to Leadbelly reminded me again of how under-rated I think he is as a blues player. Perhaps he is not given enough credit for his blues playing because he was embraced by the Folk crowd, and that made him suspect to die-hard Blues fans. These fans should know better; all you have to do is listen to him to realize that he absolutely had the goods when it came to playing blues. And what a singer he was!
All best,
Johnm
-
John, is Luke Jordan's Travelling Coon really in F? I've been playing it in E for years....
-
John, is Luke Jordan's Travelling Coon really in F?
Sounds like it to me. It may sound counterintuitive, but those bass lines are probably easier in F than E.
-
I'm heading to John's afternoon class and will ask him. I don't think he gets down here to log in during Port Townsend.
But Frank's got a dang good ear, so your question has probably been answered, eh?
All for now,
John C.
-
Way Down Yonder In New Orleans arrangements tend to resolve to F. Sorry thats trad I know but it is really old and interesting.
-
Hi all,
Yes, Luke Jordan's "Traveling Coon" is in F, for sure.
All best,
Johnm
-
>:D not related at all but has anybody else tried tuning down to
F spanish with heavy strings(16-59)
I'm really liking that (Catfish Keith's) sound!
Kenny,
-
Hi all,
While at Port Townsend I picked up a CD, "Kansas City Blues", Document DOCD-5152, with the complete recorded works of Lottie Beamon-Kimbrough, Winston Holmes, Charlie Turner and Sylvester Kimbrough. On two of Lottie Beamon's earliest tracks, (from 1924!) "Honey Blues" (take 1) and "Red River Blues (take 1) she is accompanied by the Pruitt twins, Miles and Milas, and on both of the tracks, at least one of the twins is backing her out of F position in standard tuning. Neither of the twins is high-tuned on either of the tracks.
On "Honey Blues" it appears that Miles was playing guitar; Milas is listed as playing banjo, though it really sounds like banjo-mandolin. If there are any of you out there fortunate enough to play in mandolin/guitar duos, this song would be a great pick. Miles's bass runs are really gymnastic, easily rivaling any done by Leadbelly and Peg Leg Howell in F, and the twins do a spiffy job of bouncing back and forth between straight time and double time. The harmonization is a neat mix of sophistication and personalized touches, with the brothers at one point utilizing the same descending bass-line and almost the same harmonization as the one employed by Papa Charlie Jackson on "Gay Cattin'", discussed on the "Harmony and Hearing Chord Changes" thread.
On "Red River Blues" the twins are playing duo guitars in a set-up I have never seen or heard employed before: one of them (Miles?) is playing out of F position in standard tuning and the other is capoed or tuned one fret higher and playing out of the E position in standard tuning. The sound is striking and makes it crystal clear what different possibilities the two positions make available to the player of Country Blues. The only downside to the performance is that whichever twin is playing out of F has an egregiously out of tune D string--ouch! Apart from that, the performance is really interesting and suggests all kinds of other under-utilized possibilities for Country Blues duet playing. There is still so much stuff out there. . . .
All best,
Johnm
-
hi peeps,
is bob campbell's "dice's blues" in f by any chance? i heard it here
http://prewarblues.org/2005/12/going-to-detroit/
it's an excellent song but i'm not really getting to grips with it on the guitar. and i have almost no experience in the key of f. just a little bad experience with charley patton's "shake it and break it"
-
Hi David C.,
I went and listened to "Dice Blues", and it is played out of E position in standard tuning, tuned a whole step low so it sounds in D. It's a really nice song. I never heard of Bob Campbell before.
Oh, and Cheapfoot, yes, F works out great for songs with active bass runs like Leadbelly's "Roberta" or Luke Jordan's "Travelin' Coon". The runs sit so beautifully, they are right under your hand.
All best,
Johnm
-
thanks john, thanks for the insights. i'll get back to work on dice's blues.
here's an interesting thing that i found on the site:
A version of "Railroad Bill" that evidently influenced a lot of people in the New York Folk Music scene was recorded by the great Old Time player Hobart Smith in 1946. Like just about everything Smith recorded at that time of his life, this rendition of "Railroad Bill" was played really fast, really hard and really strong. This version is available on the Rounder CD "Hobart Smith--Blue Ridge Legacy", Rounder CD 11661-1799-2, and includes many of the verses that are most commonly heard sung to the song. Two other versions of the song by Smith (one played on banjo) are included on the recently released Smithsonian Folkways CD, "Hobart Smith--In Sacred Trust", SFW CD 40141. The notes to this CD inform us that Smith learned the song from Bob Campbell, an albino African-American from Saltville, Virginia's Smoky Row, of whom Smith recalled,
"His eyes would just dance in his head when he played that "Railroad Bill". And of all my traveling since, of all the colored people I've heard play it, of all the men I ever heard play it, I've never heard a man could beat Bob Campbell playing "Railroad Bill". Ah, he was wonderful. Ain't no question about that."
i'd love to be able to kid myself that this is the same bob campbell, but i'm guessing it's as popular a name in the states as it is over here. food for thought non-the-less.
-
I'm talking about Leadbelly's 1935 columbia version.
It can get a little confusing talking about Lead Belly for a couple of reasons:
1) He generally tuned down to about B. For example, taking B as his pitch for the 6th and 1st course, anything that you hear from him that has an absolute pitch of D was played on LB's guitar out of G position. It's all relative - generally, when Johnm talks about F position, it has nothing to do with pitch, just the chord shapes that were used to play the song. It's a very guitar-oriented way of describing the music.
2) Lead Belly changed his accompaniments over time. In his early LoC sessions, he played Midnight Special in F, but on subsequent recordings, he seemed to favor D. Edited to add: plus, he recorded a number of his tunes multiple times, making confusion about a particular song pretty likely - I know I've heard LoC version of Roberta, but not sure I've heard any recording of it that was made commercially.
If you're hearing a particular version of a LB tune and it's absolute pitch is at B, that could mean a couple of things:
1) He's tuned to B and playing out of E position
2) He's tuned to Bflat and playing out of F position
Either way, it's not too hard to tell once you hear the recording in question - trying to guess in the abstract is usually pretty pointless. In any event, playing out of B position is pretty rare in country blues (even more rare than playing in F, Bflat or Eflat). The only guy I can think of that did it regularly was Brownie McGhee.
-
Hi all,
I just found two more pieces played out of F by Virgil Childers on the "Blind Boy Fuller, Volume 2" JSP set. They are "Travelin' Man", which, of course, Luke Jordan recorded as "Travelin' Coon", also out of F, and "Preacher and The Bear". Childers, who recorded these pretty late, in 1938, plays both of these tunes with a swingy, four-to-the-bar strumming style that sounds like it very well may have been flat-picked. His final verse for "Travelin' Man" is very funny, and I have never heard anyone else do it.
Childers's four other tunes on the set are tantalizing, for they show a lot of variety. "Dago Blues" is played out of A in standard tuning, with a host of original moves and sophisticated sounds. "Red River Blues" is played in E, standard tuning, likewise with some great personal touches. "Who's That Knockin' At My Door" and "Somebody Stole My Jane" are both played out of C position in standard tuning and abound in new ways of getting around in that posisition. Childers's six tunes have a sort of "tip of the iceberg" quality; he plays so expertly in every position he tries that it makes you feel he probably had a lot of great music in him that he never had the opportunity to record. I suppose we are lucky that anything at all survived of him and his music.
All best,
Johnm
-
FWIW the Beale Street Sheiks' "It's A Good Thing" [see thread on lyrics on "The Collective Ear"] seems to be in F -- at least on Take 1. (Take 2 is higher and faster.)
But I have wondered: (1) did the recording speeds get screwed up somehow?, and (2) if really in F, is
Take 1 actualy played in a not-quite-up-to-pitch Spanish?
Any thoughts on the guitar accomp to "It's A Good Thing" much appreciated!
Dr. G
-
Any thoughts on the guitar accomp to "It's A Good Thing" much appreciated!
Stokes: capo 3, play D
Sane: tune a whole step low, play G
-
I'm sure the vaguaries of 78 machinery account for a number of wrong keys..
-
frankie -- If you are the musical wunderkind referenced in an earlier post on this thread:
"But Frank's got a dang good ear, so your question has probably been answered, eh?"
then your reputation precedes you...but I am agape that you not only can discern two guitars in this accomp (I know they're there -- I just can't HEAR 'em!), but also can tell that one is capoed at the third fret!!! Thanks!
richard -- Those @#%##@@ "vagaries" get me every time!
Dr. G
-
but also can tell that one is capoed at the third fret
I can't actually hear what fret the second guitar is capo'd to - just that there's a flatpicked guitar being played in G position and a fingerpicked guitar playing in D. They both (happily) are playing in the same absolute key (about F), so the guy playing in D has to be capo'd somewhere. if he's close to concert pitch, it'd be the 3rd fret, if a half step lower, then the fourth fret. Doesn't matter so much, just so the key between the two instruments stays the same (that way everybody's happy). Likewise, the flatpicker is clearly playing out of G, so if he's pitched lower than G, he must be tuned down.
Additionally, going from memory here - I think there's a picture of Stokes and Sane where, in the picture, Stokes has a capo on the third fret and is fingering a G chord. Sane has no capo and is fingering a C chord. If Sane was tuned a whole step low and Stokes was tuned to concert pitch, they'd both sound the same chord: B-flat.
String instruments are cool that way.
-
Nice, frankie. More wonderful, old secrets revealed!
-
Hi all,
I have one to add to this category that I just heard for the first time today on the Revenant release, "American Primitive, Vol. 2": Moses Mason, aka "Red Hot Old Mose", doing "Shrimp Man", from 1928 on a banjo-guitar.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Bill Jackson, on his "Long Steel Rail" CD on Testament (on the Juke) does a really nice raggy 8-bar Blues, "Going Back South", out of F on a twelve-string guitar. His sound really has a nice zing to it because he has a high octave B string on the guitar, a technique previously noted by Frankie in the playing of Blind Willie McTell and the Pruett twins.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I was scouting around tonight and found a couple more tunes played in F position, standard tuning: Mance Lipscomb's "Rag In F" (kind of a slam-dunk, that) and from Kentuckian Bill Williams, "That's The Human Thing To Do" and "Darktown Strutters' Ball".
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I just remembered a couple of more: "The Gin Done Done It" and "Do It Right" by Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie.
All best,
Johnm
-
The Weenie Campbell forum is a humbling place - mention of Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie exposed some of my extensive ignorance. Off to the reference works where I found that Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie was a pseudonym for Kid Wesley Wilson and Harry McDaniels (and "probably others") on Columbia. The two songs mentioned above were recorded in New York City on September 5, 1929. Kid Wesley Wilson and Harry McDaniels do a vocal duet accompanied by Harry McDaniels on guitar.
-
And here I thought Catjuice Charlie was a household name...
-
And here I thought Catjuice Charlie was a household name...
:P
2 years ago I was in the Port Townsend CB "store" and Del Rey was buying a pile of CDs one of which was a Document compilation with one tune by Catjuice Charlie - which was her reason for buying the CD, she'd never heard of Catjuice Charlie. Of course, I had to go buy the same CD for the same reason. :P
-
And here I thought Catjuice Charlie was a household name...
Hee, Hee, but certainly has been here in the past
http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=114&topic=712.msg16189;topicseen#msg16189
anybody up for tagging the references?
-
I tagged that one anyway. Think I just beat Uncle Bud to it, he was in there at the same time.
-
Someone else check this out. It sounds to my novice ears that one or both guitars is playing out of F in Tarter and Gay's Unknown Blues, which is track 25 on CD A of A Richer Tradition. At your encouragement, John M, I've been listening to Leadbelly's blues in F. Tonight I was listening to the A Richer Tradition set and this song sorta jumped out at me. Seems like those bass runs work great in F, especially the IV chord licks, which it sounds like both guitarists took advantage of, alto I suppose the one taking the high leads could be capo 5 playing out of C. Playing along (loosely following) I was even starting to get the thumb wrap Bb chord.-G-
All for now.
John C.
-
It sure sounds like it could be in F, John. I'm pretty sure the higher guitar is in C, as you say, and he's doing most of the bass runs on the IV chord, a lot like Lemon's bass runs in "Black Horse." If Gay (I think he's the one playing the lower guitar) is in F on "Unknown Blues," he's in F on "Brownie Blues" as well, where Tarter plays in E position. Those guys should have made a lot more than one record.
Another interesting guitarist who plays in F who just came to my mind, although he's not quite blues, is Norman Woodlieff, who was the original recorded guitarist with Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers. He plays in F on "Old Johnny Bucker Wouldn't Do" and "Cat's Got the Measles..." with Walter Smith. The New Lost City Ramblers covered "Cats" and kept the original guitar style, which might be the most accessible recording of his style, athough the original tracks are out on Document, Walter Smith Vol. 1.
Chris
-
Hi John C.,
Yes, I agree, it sounds like the low guitar is being played out of F in standard tuning. All of those ascending chromatic runs coming open from the 3rd of the I chord lay out beautifully in F, and are darned awkward in E position. Way to hear!
all best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
As per the discussion on the Notable Omissions thread, here are four tunes played out of F position in standard tuning that have not previously been noted here, all by Gene Campbell:
* "Don't Leave Me Blue Blues"
* "Doggone Mean Blues"
* "Married Life Blues"
* "Fair Weather Woman Blues"
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I just recalled that Smith Casey, joined by Roger Gill on vocals, played "When I Get Home" out of F position in standard tuning.
All best,
Johnm
-
I was listening to the Dallas String Band recently and it seems their fabulous Dallas Rag is played in the key of F, at least. It's very difficult to hear what the guitar is doing (if anything!) but presumably playing rag chords. It's the mandolins show on this tune, and a tremendous tune it is. A good tune to learn to back up any mandolin player who can pull it off.
-
Not familiar with the tune. Can you include an mp3 sample?
Gilles
-
Hi Gilles - you can hear a sample here:
http://www.emusic.com/album/Various-Artists-Texas-Black-Country-Dance-Music-1927-1935-MP3-Download/10864903.html
-
I was listening to the Dallas String Band recently and it seems their fabulous Dallas Rag is played in the key of F, at least. It's very difficult to hear what the guitar is doing (if anything!) but presumably playing rag chords. It's the mandolins show on this tune, and a tremendous tune it is. A good tune to learn to back up any mandolin player who can pull it off.
Quite a few good mando tunes in F, and Dallas Rag is one of the best, as you say. I didn't go back to see if we've mentioned these, so forgive me if I'm duplicating someone or myself, but The Three Stripped Gears' Black Bottom Strut, Doc Roberts' Take Those Lips Away, and the Miss. Mud Steppers' Alma Waltz are all in F. And the second part of Doc Roberts' fiddle tune Cumberland Blues is similarly in that key (first part's in C). All of these are great raggy tunes. Al Miller's version of Someday Sweetheart is in F, and maybe more of his tunes, too, but that's the only one I know the key for. Oh, and Kirk McGee's No One Else Can Take Your Place, which is partially in 3/4 and partially in 4/4.
Chris
-
The Carolina Peanut Boys/Memphis Jug Band's "You Got Me Rollin'" is another great mandolin tune out of F. I still haven't got out of G position on mando, :P but it would seem F is mando friendly, or at least popular.
-
F is definitely mando-friendly... and move it down a string and B-flat is mando-friendly, too. E-flat... Flat-keys - they're nature's candy.
Sorry to get off the mando-tangent, but it looks like "Wayward Girl" by Lottie Beaman/Kimbrough and one of the Pruitts never made it onto the list.
-
I shall experiment until I manage to get to the store to buy new banjo strings.
I notice that "Wayward Girl" indeed doesn't occur in this thread but does appear in the Blues in F (http://weeniecampbell.com/wiki/index.php?title=Blues_in_F) page on Weeniepedia.
edited to add: just a note - in case longtime users or new users missed this upgraded function, the new-fangled search function on the forum allows for a pretty easy search of whatever thread you happen to be reading. Enter your search term in the field at the top right of the page, use the drop-down menu to choose "This Topic" and click Search. Very nice when looking for something within a long topic, like the 46-page Lemon lyrics thread.
-
Hi all,
I became aware of the music of Lake Howard, an Old-Time singer and guitarists from Deep Run, N.C., through Lightnin' Wells, who made his music available to me (thanks, Lightnin'!). Evidently, Lake Howard was a discovery of J. B. Long, who lived in Kinston, NC before moving to Durham and discovering Blind Boy Fuller, Bull City Red and Gary Davis. Anyhow, Lake Howard recorded a bunch of titles in 1934-1935, and played a couple of them out of the F position in standard tuning.
Howard was a particularly nice player, playing in a thumb lead style much like Maybelle Carter's "scratch". He had very good tone and timing and could play quick, too. He also had the mysterious ability to drop beats here and there in his solos and maintain a smooth rhythmic flow while doing that. I expect he just heard it that way. Like many of the Old-Time musicians of his era, his material was all over the map, including religious numbers, sentimental songs that may have been from the Parlor Song era, novelty numbers and some fairly risque blues. He played both "I've Lost My Love", his own version of "Careless Love", and "It's None of Your Business", a song that is somewhat reminiscent of the Cedar Creek Sheik's material, out of F position in standard tuning. He was utterly at home in the position and very fluid there. He also used a closed F position to play in the key of G, as Rev. Davis often did, on "Love Me Darling, Love Me".
I don't know if any of Lake Howard's recordings have been re-issued and I know next to nothing about him biographically. If any of you Weenies has the big Tony Russell book on Old-Time music and would care to post more information on Lake Howard, I would be interested and would appreciate it.
All best,
Johnm
-
I believe I have a Lake Howard LP of re-issues on either Old Homestead or County; I'll check when I get home. One of his tracks of him backing someone on fiddle is on the "White Country Blues" 2-CD set. I believe he played a National.
Chris
-
From what I can tell, it's County LP 409 - Lake Howard - "The Singing Farmer." There's a couple for sale out in webland.
Edit: To attach photo
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
That's the one, Stuart, thanks!
"Duplin County Blues" is the track on "White Country Blues" -- a version of "I Don't Love Nobody," with The Cauley Family. According to the notes, Howard was born in Greensboro, NC in 1913 -- he played often at J.B. Long's Kinston United Dollar store and over WDNC in Durham. He had two sessions for ARC, one in Aug. '34 and one in April of '35. Sadly, at age 33 he got a brain tumor that paralyzed him on his left side and he died in Jan. 1954.
Track listing on the LP is
Little Annie
It's None of Your Business
New Chattanooga Mama
Grey Eagle
Lover's Farewell
Walking in the Light
I've Lost My Love
Forsaken Love
Streamline Mama
Love Me Darling, Love Me
Chewing Gum
Duplin County Blues
Within My Father's House
I'll have to take all the mail off the turntable and give it a spin; I think I only listened to it once when I bought it about 10 years ago.
Chris
-
Thanks, Chris and Stuart, for the additional information on Lake Howard. It appears from looking at the track list on the album that I have two titles that did not appear there--"I've Lost My Love", which is the "Careless Love" version, and "Get Your Head In Here", a nutty chorus blues much in the mold of the Cedar Creek Sheik.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Also on the "Rev. Gary Davis--Live at Gerde's Folk City" CD set is a song played in F, "Tesse", not previously available on record by Rev. Davis. It's a sort of vaudeville/minstrel show number, sung by the Reverend in a faux sobbing voice which is either hilarious or excrutiating, depending on your sense of humor.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all
I'm trying to figure out how "South Carolina Rag" by the great Willie Walker and Sam Brooks was done. I'm thinking it was played out of the F position, my thinking on this is based mainly on the accompanying guitars' chord shapes and basslines.
Of course this is a cycle of 5ths tune, so no dreaded IV chord in it. ;)
|| D7 | D7 | G7 | G7 |
| C7 | C7 | F | F ||
What do you think?
Thanks
Pan
-
Great thread....the knowledge base of this place ALWAYS amazes me!
I don't think that I've seen Mance's Masterpiece "You got to see your Mama everynight" listed here...a great tune and a lot of fun to play.
Here is a version of it I did a month or so ago: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8060334
Cheers,
Blue
-
Thanks, Chris and Stuart, for the additional information on Lake Howard. It appears from looking at the track list on the album that I have two titles that did not appear there--"I've Lost My Love", which is the "Careless Love" version, and "Get Your Head In Here", a nutty chorus blues much in the mold of the Cedar Creek Sheik.
(No help for Pan here, who has revived this thread. Haven't listened yet, Pan.)
Re. Lake Howard, I'd add that another track, the Cauley Family doing "New River Train", appears on the In the Pines compilation from Old Hat. The notes mention that a 1934 old-time contest in Kinston, North Carolina, offered the top prize of a trip to New York and a session with ARC. Winners were Lenoir County fiddler Roland Cauley, two eldest kids Arthur and Ruth, and Lake Howard.
As discussed elsewhere, Old Hat recently released "Gastonia Gallop", which is due to be followed by "Crazy Barn Dance: String Bands & Brother Teams on North Carolina Radio", and then "Lumberton Wreck", an album of artists under the management of J.B. Long, including Lake Howard, Reverend Gary Davis, Blind Boy Fuller, and Sonny Terry.
JohnM, I looked in the Tony Russell book Country Music Originals and can't find anything about Lake Howard. Unfortunately, there is no index (my one complaint about this otherwise excellent book), only a table of contents. No entry for the Cauley Family. The book is not comprehensive, as Russell himself admits. Did Lake Howard play with any other musicians or group than the Cauley Family. Perhaps some information is buried in another entry.
-
Hi all,
Uncle bud, I don't know what percentage I have of Lake Howard's recordings, but on the twenty tracks I do have, in addition to the eight with the Cauley Family, he did two numbers with Bill Wakefield, as well as 10 solo numbers. Lightnin' Wells probably knows how much Lake Howard recorded and if he recorded with any other musicians.
Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning. I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.
all best,
Johnm
-
Nothing on Wakefield either unfortunately. We'll perhaps have to wait till that Old Hat release.
-
Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning. I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.
Thanks Johnm (and Uncle Bud).
It was hard for me to hear, since Walker plays mostly single string lines, but C position makes sense, and is common in these types of rags. I'll try to capo at 5th fret and see what it does.
The song itself is pitched somewhere between E and F, and I'm still thinking that Brooks plays from F rather than E, but I could be wrong.
Back to the shed.
Pan
-
Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning. I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.
Thanks Johnm (and Uncle Bud).
It was hard for me to hear, since Walker plays mostly single string lines, but C position makes sense, and is common in these types of rags. I'll try to capo at 5th fret and see what it does.
The song itself is pitched somewhere between E and F, and I'm still thinking that Brooks plays from F rather than E, but I could be wrong.
Back to the shed.
Pan
Johnm was right, of course. Putting the capo on the 5th fret unlocked some tricky fingerings and everything became much more natural.
I think Brooks at times goes to the open low E on the V chord (C7) which would put him in F position in standard tuning, if I'm not mistaken. His accompaniment is really excellent and he plays some really nice basslines too! Great music! :) I wish I get to play country blues duets some sweet day!
Thanks again John!
Now I'm off to see what happens in take two. It seems to have a more clear sound. Maybe they improved on the mic placement?
Cheers
Pan
-
Good for you, Pan, for paying enough attention to Sam Brooks to figure out what he was doing! Willie Walker's playing on the tune is so dazzling that it's been hard for me in the past to focus attention on all aspects of the rendition. Here's a case of a blues in F that sort of snuck in the back door!
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
I was listening to the great old County Records re-issue, "Riley Puckett--Waitin' For the Evening Mail", and noticed that in addition to "I'm Ragged But I'm Right" and "Poor Boy", which have already been identified in this thread as having been played out of the F position, Riley also did "Riley's Hen House Door", "When I'm Gone You'll Soon Forget Me', and "Boots & Saddle" out of F position, as well. None of them are blues, but we've included other songster material here, so . . . .
All best,
Johnm
-
I believe "Southbound Rag", the trio side with Blake, Jimmy Bertrand and Johnny Dodds, is in F. I used to think it was E, but F makes more sense given the presence of the clarinet. I love Blake's playing on this.
Gerry
-
I believe "Southbound Rag", the trio side with Blake, Jimmy Bertrand and Johnny Dodds, is in F. I used to think it was E, but F makes more sense given the presence of the clarinet. I love Blake's playing on this.
Gerry
If this is the tune I'm thinking of, I'm pretty sure Blake tunes low and plays out of G position on this one, similar to his work on "Hastings St."
Chris
-
Chris, that is certainly possible and it never struck me. It might account for the oddly ringing sound he gets from the I chord at the end of one of the tune sections.
Gerry
-
Hi all,
I just remembered a couple of more: "The Gin Done Done It" and "Do It Right" by Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie.
All best,
Johnm
I just noticed while playing along with it Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's On Our Turpentine Farm is also out of F position.
-
Hi all,
I just received the Document CD of "The Two Poor Boys", Joe Evans & Arthur McClain, DOCD-5044, and in listening through the program have found that this very versatile duo recorded in F a fair amount. The following songs all have the guitarist playing out of F position in standard tuning, and are all over the map, stylistically:
* "Little Son Of A Gun"--played on a 12-string, terrific raggy playing and fast;
* "New Huntsville Jail, takes 1 and 3"--A waltz with a faux weepy recitation done to the tune of "Down In The Valley". Really pretty despite the histrionics;
* "Sitting On Top Of The World"--a la the Mississippi Sheiks, after the Sheiks had their big hit with it.
* "So Sorry Dear"--a Poppy song, up tempo, sung in close harmony, very much of the Jazz Age. I think this might be Walter Donaldson's "What Can I Say Dear, After I've Said That I'm Sorry", with a different title.
The Two Poor Boys must be one of the most versatile duos in this style ever to record. Between them, you hear excellent singing, together and separately, plus expert playing of guitars, mandolin, violin and piano (and kazoo). They sound thoroughly professional, the kind of group that might have been able to go into the studio three or four days consecutively and never repeat a song. Boy, were they good!
All best,
Johnm
-
The Two Poor Boys are great! I came across that document LP a few years ago, not knowing what I was getting into. Versatile indeed.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned already, but I believe "Reno Blues" by the Three Tobacco Tags is in F. Also "Get Yer Head In Here" and maybe a couple more by them.
~Devin
-
Hi all,
I noticed recently another piece like "South Carolina Rag", in which the lead guitar is not played out of F position, but the backing guitar is. The song is Blind Boy Fuller's "Baby, You Gotta Change Your Mind", and on it Fuller is playing out of C position, capoed to the fifth fret, while Gary Davis backs him, working out of F position in standard tuning, uncapoed, and Bull City Red handles the washboard. Fuller's accompaniment is relatively straight-forward, though with the very lively rhythmic feel his playing always had, but Rev. Davis is absolutely smoking, and gets wilder and more exciting the longer the rendition goes along. This one is definitely worth seeking out for Rev. Davis's playing, if you've not heard it previously.
All best,
Johnm
-
As noted in the Jed Davenport Jug Band personnel (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7956.msg69213#msg69213) thread, I believe that the accompaniment on Piccolo Blues is played out of F position on a 12-string guitar.
-
Hi all,
Sam Chatmon played his rendition of "I Get The Blues When It Rains" on the CD, "Sam Chamon, Blues At Home, Vol.2) on the mbirafon label, mbirafon CD102, out of the F position.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's version of "On Our Turpentine Farm" was played out of F position. In fact, all three tunes of theirs that I have heard were played out of F position. Here's the song, and thanks to Pan for finding this one, which he posted on facebook a little while ago.
All best,
Johnm
Pigmeat Pete & Catjuice Charlie - On Our Turpentine Farm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3KpPigpaOg#)
-
Hi all,
I just heard Kid Cole's "Hard Hearted Mama Blues", which can be found on "Rare Country Blues, Vol. 3" on Document, and Cole played the song out of F position in standard tuning. I know nothing about Cole. His time on the song is very straight-up-and-down, and he greatly favors and features bass runs, as did just about everyone who played in F position.
All best,
Johnm
-
According to Steven Tracey, in Going To Cincinnati: A History of the Blues in the Queen City, Kid Cole was from Cincinnati and was identified by surviving old timers as the same person as Bob Cole/Coleman. Tracey suggests he may also be the same person as Sweet Papa Tadpole and Walter Cole.
-
Thanks for that information, dj. Sweet Papa Tadpole, wow, that's quite a monicker!
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Archie Lewis' "Miss Handy Hanks", posted by Professor Scratchy in the Main Forum, was played out of F position in standard tuning.
All best,
Johnm
-
Though maybe leaning more on to jazz(?), Rosetta Howard & the Harlem Hamfats did their tune "The Candy Man" out the key of F. I really like her singing on this one!
Rosetta Howard & the Harlem Hamfats - The Candy Man 1938 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NB2stB36kw#)
Cheers
Pan
-
Hi all,
In addition to the Bob Coleman tune posted in the "Careless Love" thread, I found this one, "Hey Hey Mama Blues", by Kid Cole, also played out of F position. According to dj's post a couple above this one, Walter Coleman and Kid Cole were probably the same person. How about that!
Kid Cole- Hey Hey Mama Blues (1928) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWE_KmeLdTM#ws)
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Roi found Spark Plug Smith doing "Sweet Evening Breeze" in an arrangement that he (Smith) played out of F position in standard tuning.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Roi brought to my attention that Rev. W. H. Gallamore's recording of "Hide Me Over in the Rock of Ages" was played out of F position in standard tuning. Here it is, and thanks, Roi!
Deacon W.H. Gallamore- Hide Me Over In The Rock Of Ages (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVvaiNw304#ws)
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Here is a pretty spiffy one, Rufus and Ben Quillian's "Satisfaction Blues". I believe the hot flat-picked guitar is being done by Hoke Rice, a Georgian who also recorded with people in the the Skillet Lickers' orb. It appears to be an early instance of an inter-racial recording ensemble.
Rufus & Ben Quillian Satisfaction Blues (1930) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYj8UgC_RvU#)
SOLO
My gal sure can do that thing
Every night you can hear me sing
REFRAIN: I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
I met a gal, easy as pie
She told me I had to satisfy
REFRAIN: And she's satisfied, she's satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
Old Man Help's got a real young gal
I go with her, but I won't tell
REFRAIN: And he's satisfied, he's satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
SOLO
It may be wrong, it may be a sin
But the young girls go with these married men
REFRAIN: Because it's satisfied, to get satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
Jumpback went with his buddy's wife
The man couldn't stop him to save his life
REFRAIN: And he's satisfied, he's satisfied
Just had to do it, and now he's satisfied, I'm satisfied
"Stay 'way from my wife.", the man did beg
At last he shot old Jump's right leg
REFRAIN: Now Jump's satisfied, he's satisfied
Just has to do it, and now he's satisfied, I'm satisfied
SOLO
Old mother Sue is sixty-four
She's through, she don't want no more
REFRAIN: She's satisfied, she'a satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
My gal was mean as she could be
Now she's gone and quit poor me
REFRAIN: She's satisfied, satisfied
Just have to do it, and now I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied
All best,
Johnm
-
Here's a strange one in F position (a key she rarely played in) by Algia Mae Hinton called Take Me Back To The Movie Star. I think It's some kind of contemporary soul hit she picked up off a jukebox or radio but I've been unable to trace it. The guitar playing sounds almost like African music to my ears.http://picosong.com/Xc62 (http://picosong.com/Xc62)
-
Thanks for posting that, Lightnin'. I had mentioned Algia Mae's rendition of that tune earlier in the thread, but I did not have a sound example of it to post, and it all works so much better when you can hear the tune. Thanks!
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Here's another tune played out of F by the Blue Harmony Boys, Rufus and Ben Quillian: "Workin' It Slow". It once again features the fancy flat-picker Hoke Rice, I believe. Here it is:
Working It Slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7By6CW5uo6k#ws)
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Here is one played in F position I'd never heard before, "Mississippi Strut" by Charlie "Dad" Nelson. Boy, it's nice!
http://youtu.be/u8cfRGiD2Nw (http://youtu.be/u8cfRGiD2Nw)
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Asa Martin played his "Jake Walk Papa", for which he was joined by Doc Roberts on mandolin, out of F position. Here it is:
http://youtu.be/ZgfvzDEKTso (http://youtu.be/ZgfvzDEKTso)
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all,
Bob Coleman's "Sing Song Blues", recently in the "What Is This Musician Doing?" thread, was played out of F position.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi all
If I'm not terribly mistaken, "Waiting for You" a waltz by Mississippi John Hurt is played out of F position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkc_wWBhMU
Edited to add; as Johnm says below, MJH actually played out of G position in std tuning.
Cheers
Pan
-
Hi Pan,
I think John Hurt is working out of G position there, Pan.
All best,
Johnm
-
Hi Pan,
I think John Hurt is working out of G position there, Pan.
All best,
Johnm
Oops, so I was wrong! Thanks for the correction John, G position really makes sense.
I edited my post to include your correction. Now back to the drawing board!
Cheers
Pan
-
Hi all,
Yet another "Adventures in . . ." thread moved to Licks and Lessons.
All best,
Johnm
-
As I mentioned recently I have been getting into playing in F and I was led there by a song that is not previously mentioned in this topic, "Fattnin' Frogs for Snakes" by the Mobile Strugglers. I've been working with a fiddler and she asked if could we play it pitched a F like the recording. I was trying to create a backing arrangement using some of the mando licks in the treble against some of the bass licks from the boom-changy guitar of Paul Johnson. Sure seemed like he was playing in F, so I decided to follow suit and learn something. That was a really fun project, altho the pandemic has preclude me getting together with the fiddler, so I tracked down this thread to find more songs played in F. It was fun to read through and remember some of the interchanges from before.
Anyway, I don't really know if Paul Johnson would qualify for the new "Guitar Stylist" topic, but wanted to put the song on this topic.
Wax