Topic: starting fingerstyle

[Slack]

HI Matt,

Sounds like you;ve got a good start.  I agree with UB about Mississippi John Hurt - sounds easier than it is... but if you like MJH try some out. I'd try out as many different sources as you can get - there are lots of free online sources to try, here is a good one I think:

http://www.ericlugosch.com/lessonhome.html

Tab comes in handy when first starting out.  The main thing is to have patience with yourself - fingerpicking is not easy in the beginning - if it seems to impossible, step back and take it in smaller chucks... learn the pice in smaller bits and pieces.

Good luck - you are at a great age to start for a lifetime of satisfaction!

Cheers,
slack

[outfidel]

A couple of thoughts:

1) It's best to learn guitar from someone in person. If that's not possible/available, then the next best thing (for me, anyway) is video - particularly DVD. I find I learn much more effectively & efficiently by watching someone rather than just reading tablature out of a book.

2) It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: whether you're learning from a person or a video or a book, you need to listen to the music a LOT.

3) If you like Mississippi John Hurt, then I HIGHLY recommend John Miller's DVDs. John is the best at explaining fingerpicking clearly -- at tempo, slowed down, split screen showing the right and left hands, etc. Plus, his tablature is accurate.

[wildcotton]

In addition to these excellent suggestions, you might  try to find a local acoustic jam session that meets regularly.  That's not always easy to do (I know, what are the chances of finding a country blues jam anywhere?) but if you can find one, it's a great way to learn--even if you don't find much blues, you'll probably find some musicians that are willing to share the basics of fingerpicking and learn some songs.  Do  what the others have suggested here for sure, but also take advantage of what you can learn from other pickers wherever you can find them. 

Jeff

[Montgomery]

John Hardy, you desperate little man: Fingerpicking can seem intimidating at first, but learning to finger basic chords and strum was once intimidating too.  I've seen a lot of fingerpicking snobbery (not on this board), people who scoff at the idea of strumming.  Proper strumming is probably just as hard to learn as fingerpicking, but fingerpicking seems harder it because it usually comes later and so you have to reinvent the way you use your right hand.  Buy a Miss. John Hurt book (or the John Miller DVD) and practice the picking pattern for at least 10 minutes a day.   If you can bring yourself to practice that way for a week, you should notice a big improvement.  Before long, it will be second nature to you.  However, I think there's a danger in learning just from John Hurt because he does use basically one method of pattern picking without much variation, and this can sound repetitive and derivative.  Fingerpicking sounds impressive, and John Hurt had a distinct sound at the time, but now too many fingerpickers sound exactly like him (just not quite as good).  Learning a picking pattern is a good way to exercise your fingers but if you don't practice other patterns, or more varied picking, you will find you're not even able to deviate from the alternating thumb pattern.  John Hurt is a good introduction to fingerpicking, but too many people stop there.  Also, when you first start fingerpicking, you have to choose how many fingers you're going to use.  Many great players use just their thumb and index finger, while others use 3, 4, or all 5 fingers.  No matter how many you use, it's  going to be difficult at first, and if you learn to use only your thumb and index, it will be just as difficult if you have (or want) to train another finger later.  So start with 3, 4, or maybe 5 fingers, although the pinky seems superfluous for most kinds of playing.  A lot of books from the Grossman school will tell you to anchor your pinky on the guitar but I think this is a completely personal choice and is not necessary (I'm no expert player, but I've heard many great players who don't anchor their pinky).   As for chords, learning more of them is just going to take the same memorization skills that it took to learn the ones you already know.  Fortunately you know the most important chords and many of the chords you don't know are formed by using the same chord shapes at different places on the fretboard.  Buy a chord book and learn a few songs with chords you don't know and that should help.  Finally, while tablature is a great learning tool and I've learned a lot from it, the most important thing is to listen to the music and try to figure things out for yourself.  I say this as someone who used a lot of tab and whose ear has suffered as a result of it.  I've only recently stopped trying to read or write tab and try to learn from my ear only and it has helped me a lot.  I recommend downloading John Miller's ear training lesson, available on this forum, to help you with some ear training techniques.  Anyway, good luck and sorry if I've ranted and let me also say that I am a very mediocre guitarist and shouldn't be giving advice.

[thehook]

well thanks I think its nice you all did this for me. No teachers around here though. Do any of the teachers focus more on the basics than others cause that is basicallywhere I am .
http://truefire.com/agw/fsbnew.htm
http://www.acousticguitarworkshop.com/
what do you folks think of this?

[a2tom]

n[

[thehook]

the Guitar Worskshop? what is that? sorry was it talked about earlier, i'm out of it.

[a2tom]

oh, sorry.  Stefan Grossman's company that sells their instructional materials is call the the Stefan Grossman Guitar Workshop.  That's the web site:

http://guitarvideos.com/

tom

[BlindSockeyeSalmon]

I'll second the vote for Eric Lugosch's "Fingerstyle Academy" pages:

http://www.ericlugosch.com/lessonhome.html

Also, it's not really blues stuff, but to get the hang of the fundamentals of alternating-thumb picking, with very well-designed lessons for fingerpicking beginners, I'd recommend Mark Hanson's The Art of Contemporary Travis Picking:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0936799005

This will get you ready for Libba Cotten or John Hurt stuff.

John

[Jimbo]

Hi John - Sounds like you're off to a great start anyhow, but here's my twopenneth:
Don't under-estimate the value of good strumming/rhythm technique - it's THE most important part in the early stages of learning (and will always be a valuable tool).

I forget the book I used (too many years ago for me to remember) but it basically recommended building in stages:

(1) Keep your 3 picking fingers together at first, plucking the 3 treble strings as one, whilst playing an alternating bass between E and A strings, and practice till 2nd nature.
(2) Change your Bass string alternate plucking from A string to D string, and practice....
(3) Separate your 1st (index) finger from the other 2 (to pick the G string) and maintain same bass string patterns.
(4) Separate your 2nd (middle) finger (from your 3rd (ring) finger (to pick the B string whilst 3rd finger picks the E string)  and do same bass patterns.
(5) Practice until all 3 picking fingers can work independently (with thumb working independently too of course)

A basic "Clawhammer" style of TIMRIMI (Thumb;Index;Middle;Ring;Index;Middle;Index) will get you well on your way to learning how to adapt to any fingerstyle (not just the great MJH).  It's worked for me as I find it has provided me with a solid foundation for playing all styles of folk, country, blues, rock, old standards etc.  I see many players who are good in one style of playing but can't adapt - there's a grave danger in relying on tab too much so I'd advise you to use it with caution.

One of the most difficult things for players learning fingerstyle is getting those fingers and thumb to work independently, yet in a dynamically and rhythmically co-ordinated way.  It's about getting both halves of your brain in gear at the same time too!

Trust me - a good basic and solid foundation is the key to a 1st rate technique.  Don't skimp on it.
"Walk, Don't Run" is a great song to play - and it's a good maxim to follow in your early stages of development.

Good luck - you've a lifetime of pleasure ahead of you.

[Smokin Bill]

Indeed, some John Hurt tunes are easier to play than others. I've had the Stefan Grossman book and CDs for several years, and I think I've got it all down except for "Candy Man," which I can't even begin to fake my way through! Does anybody else find that arrangement to be among his most difficult?

Some easier John Hurt tunes to learn are My Creolle Belle, Coffee Blues, Stagerlee, Spike Driver's Blues and Shake That Thing (which I think is actually a Papa Charlie Jackson song) and Nobody's Dirty Business, I've found.

At any rate, I thought I'd also mention the Fred Sokolow videos offered on Grossman's site (www.guitarvideos.com) are also quite good. I found his introductory blues and fingerpicking videos very helpful when I was just beginning to evolve from a strummer to a fingerpicker.

[Dom94]

Indeed, some John Hurt tunes are easier to play than others. I've had the Stefan Grossman book and CDs for several years, and I think I've got it all down except for "Candy Man," which I can't even begin to fake my way through! Does anybody else find that arrangement to be among his most difficult?

I think so,  Candy Man is one of the most difficult song to master especially the version with omitted bass in the john miller's Dvd, I'm going crazy...

[Norfolk Slim]

2 things:

I agree Candyman is tricky.

I don't agree that a solid strumming/ rhythm technique is an important foundation.  Handy of course, but by no means a pre requisite to finger pick. 

I certainly wouldnt describe myself as having any such technique.

[Johnm]

I agree with Norfolk Slim, and would add that one of the previous posts keeps alluding to Mississippi John Hurt's picking pattern.  In fact, John Hurt had no picking pattern, i.e., a repeating rhythmic figure, as you have had occasion to find out from working on "Candyman", Dom94.  One practice technique you may find helpful is to play the difficult passages with right hand only, first, just picking the appropriate open strings.  When you feel comfortable doing that, re-introduce the left hand, and you should find the passages easier to play.
All best,
Johnm