Topic: Blues in Minor/With Minor Chords

[Pan]

According to the search function, Sara Matin's "Shipwrecked Blues" isn't listed in this thread. The song has been discussed earlier in here: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=2831.msg21851#msg21851



Cheers

Pan

[Pan]

"The Spasm" by Mississippi Sarah & Daddy Stovepipe has a nice variaton to the usual 16 bar chord progression, where the bars 9 - 12 usually have the I chord followed by I7 and IV. Instead Daddy Stovepipe ventures to the relative minor via it's dominant chord, III7 to VIm, or E7 to Am.  The intro is different, with only 12 bars. Something like this:

Intro:
|| C | C | C | C |

| Am | Am | C | C |

| G | G | C | C ||

16-bar chorus
||: C | C | C | C |

| C | C | G | G |

| C | E7 | Am | Am |

| C | G | C | C :||   



Cheers

Pan

                 

[Pan]

Hi all

I'm trying to figure out Rosetta Howard's and the Harlem Hamfats' tune "Delta Bound". It's in F minor, but a major I chord interestingly seem to appear both on the melody and harmony, occasionally. It sounds like the musician themselves weren't quite sure when to resolve to a major or minor I chord, and it sounds to me, like some clashes occur at times. The B section seems to have a major tonic chord all the times. What I get is something like this:

Intro:
|| Fm | Db7 | C7 | F |

| Db7 | C7 | Fm Bbm | Fm (Fm/C) ||

A
||: Fm | Db7 | C7 | F |

| Db7 | C7 | Fm Bbm | Fm (Fm/C) :||

B
|| Bb7 | Bb7 | F | F |

| Bb7 | Bb7 | F | C7 ||

Back to A

What do you think? Corrections are welcome!



Cheers

Pan

[Johnm]

I think you nailed it, Pan.  Rosetta Howard and the soloists seem most often to suggest an F major chord in the fourth bar of the A parts, and the mandolin player (Charlie McCoy?) most often plays it as a minor.  Sometimes they're in accord, and sometimes not.  Rosetta Howard's singing on this is spectacular!  I never heard her before, and the way she is phrasing way behind the beat is ultra-cool.  That was a great find.
All best,
Johnm

[Pan]

Thank you very much, John! Much appreciated!

When the musicians disagree with the harmony, it can be difficult to figure out, what's going on!

FWIW, I took a try at the lyrics as well: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9445.msg79895;topicseen#msg79895

Cheers

Pan

[TallahatchieTrot]

A question for guitar players. In the 1960s Ishman Bracey told me that when he recorded for Paramount Records he used a different tuning on his "Woman, Woman Blues." (Pm12970. I asked him what it was and he said G Minor tuning. At that time I didn't know the difference from Spanish G and "natural" so it  was always a question. Give a listen to Bracey's recording and tell me if he is in a minor tuning. Personally as a  Dobro player, I hear no minor chords but  wanted  the forum's perspective. Could he be in "cross note" on that song which is on both Yazoo and Document releases. Also I have never heard of a G Minor tuning.
    Also, Bracey said he only heard or saw one of his PM recordings ands that was the "little comedy record" he and 44 Charlie Taylor did. "Where's My Shoes At?
    Also Bracey's playing on "Woman Woman" is totally different from any of his other recordings.  gdw/

[banjochris]

Gayle -- I've always heard "Woman, Woman" as being in standard tuning, key of E, although I can't remember if he's tuned high or capoed. Son House called standard tuning the "key of minor" in his Library of Congress recordings, for whatever that's worth.

PS and thanks for all the wonderful work you've done preserving and researching the music over the years!
Chris

[Norfolk Slim]

I say standard E too- though with an unwound third making for some weird noises and bends.

I have to say though that I base that conclusion primarily on John M teaching it...

[Pan]

Hi all

I was listening to the different versions of "Some Cold Rainy Day", and I came across two interesting versions, where the relative minor VI chord is used instead where you would normally expect the I chord. They are both pretty.

First one is by Bertha "Chippie" Hill, with Tampa Red and Georgia Tom, from 1928. The search function revealed, that MTJ3 has already discussed the changes on the 8-bar blues thread: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=785.msg17626#msg17626 , but perhaps this great tune deserves to be mentioned here too?
The song is in the key of F and on bar 5 they play a Dm chord, where normally you would expect the F chord to continue, with the melody note A. They also start the song with a IV7 chord, and their version is very unique and beautiful IMO.

||: Bb7 | Bb7 | F | F |

| Dm | C7 | F Bb | F C7 :||



Another version I came by is by Meredith Axelrod, with the more usual changes, except that they change the first I chord into a relative minor VI, which gives a nice touch. They play in C:

||: Am | C7 | F | F |

| C | G7 | C | C :||



I wonder if this is their own arrangement, or if they picked it up from someone else? Let us know if you know another version or song with the same or similar changes.

I guess some might argue, that "Hesitation Blues" starting with the relative minor is the same case, but since it also employs the V7 chord of the relative minor key (E7 to Am), I would think that this is taking the relative minor thing even a bit further, and momentarily establishing the A minor key, because the resolution from the dominant E7 chord to the Am.

Anyway, you might want to try to occasionally change the I chord to an VIm just for the fun of it, and see if you like it.

Cheers

Pan

[Pan]

Hi all

Pianist Deryck Sampson recorded a number of Boogie Woogie tunes in early 40's.  Apart of having some modern sounding harmonies, he also inserted middle parts in minor in his tunes, like in "Chinese Boogie Woogie":



and "Basin Street Boogie":



I found his playing interesting, but practically nothing regarding the man himself could be found on the internet! If you have any biographical or other info, please do share.

Cheers

Pan

[Bunker Hill]

I found his playing interesting, but practically nothing regarding the man himself could be found on the internet! If you have any biographical or other info, please do share.

Cheers

Pan

It's ironic really, in 1984 Bruce Bastin compiled an LP using near mint 78s from his Sampson collection. This he released under the title Boogie Express on a newly formed Harlequin label with, as I recall, a detailed liner note. Bruce must have been ahead of the times because the LP was one of his poorest sellers and sank without trace.

[Pan]

I found his playing interesting, but practically nothing regarding the man himself could be found on the internet! If you have any biographical or other info, please do share.

Cheers

Pan

It's ironic really, in 1984 Bruce Bastin compiled an LP using near mint 78s from his Sampson collection. This he released under the title Boogie Express on a newly formed Harlequin label with, as I recall, a detailed liner note. Bruce must have been ahead of the times because the LP was one of his poorest sellers and sank without trace.

Thanks, Bunker Hill

What a pity!

Pan

[Bunker Hill]

Thanks, Bunker Hill

What a pity!

Pan

I used to have it, Bastin gave me a copy. Don't seem to have it anymore. Perhaps I  loaned it out and failed to get it back. However, there was a 1990s Magpie CD containing 10 tracks by Sampson, and several other Joe Davis artists,  which can be viewed at Stefan's Magpie discography http://www.wirz.de/music/magpifrm.htm (item 22). Maybe a copy is for sale somewhere on the net.

[Pan]

Thanks again, BH!

http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Boogie-Woogie-Blues-1943-1946/dp/B00000AEWG

Cheers

Pan

[jpeters609]

Pan,
I took a quick look at amazon: the Harlequin LP mentioned by Bunker Hill is actually in stock (1 available):

http://www.amazon.com/Boogie-Express-Deryck-Sampson/dp/B0085A9IA0/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1371735574&sr=1-4&keywords=boogie+express